**Headline:** Aerial Spraying Nightmare: Farmers Allege Biological Warfare in Queensland

 

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day all right what's happening man good to see you thank you for having me back my pleasure um how many times a day do you get bombarded by the whole bill bur thing when it gets into the family and people I haven't talked to for 20 years then you have to break character and tell the truth no you know the thing is this is what's crazy okay uh you want the whole setup story I could be quick sure sure sure uh so uh where I take my podcast is in one of Howe Mandel's buildings and he has another building in this area so uh I was working on something and and I was supposed to go on Howe show that day and they said how you meet you out in the street or something for whatever reason so I go out in the street and the first thing howwi he says to me when he sees me he goes here comes Bill Burr and I go you too like do you know this story and he said no I don't know about it and I said you know what heck with it I'm just going to tell it on your show so don't ask me anymore and I want to show and I told this story about my how 10 years ago my stepmother came to me and said do you know who Bill Burr is I never heard of Bill didn't know who he was because I don't really consume much you know popular culture I had no idea he was a famous comedian he could have been the lawnmower guy looked up Bill first thing I saw was like oh my God he looks just like Daddy when I was 18 years old at an IHOP my on my 18 birthday my father told me you have a half brother that I sired at the same time as you whose name is Bill so suddenly these facts come together my mother telling me these stories I talked to my dad subsequently about it and he was very Cy about it and when I said why won't you tell me where this person is or who this person is he said um I'm trying to protect you so when my stepmother had told me it kind of made sense like well if if my half brother is the super famous Ian my dad in a way wouldn't want me to know because he wouldn't want me to feel like I was number two because Bill so famous I know it sounds crazy right you think that's why he was trying to protect you well I don't know so so fast forward to how he's saying something on the street so I was like you know what I'm just going to say something and I swear to God Hand in My Heart last time I was with you in California I almost pulled you aside after we were on and I was going to tell you the story cuz I knew you knew bill and I was going to back Channel see if there was anything to the story from Bill's side wow so imagine seven I think six or seven years since we talked on your show yeah 2018 somebody said to me today but so anyway sorry to talk over you but the point is is so here I am fast forward I'm just sick of seeing memes of my face with bills and so I just decide on a spur of the moment you know so hoe of course loves it but I said on on Howe show that first time I don't think Bill's my half brother I don't think I don't think there's anything there other than like an uncanny resemblance fast forward the thing comes out it gets a little bit of social media and then it goes away and I think good and Bill didn't say anything so I figured bill was kind of like whatever it was a mild Amusement you know he could have made a joke out of the whole thing and he didn't so then Howe calls me and I'm in La working recently and how he's like we come on the show Bill's going to be on and I said is Bill cool with it oh yeah no problem so then I go there and it's like it turns into this thing that you see happening on camera it's like it's weirdness times it's like a like a SK like a skit but it's real and and bills on me then bills on hoe and it gets just okay so I just told you basically everything I know okay I have people I've known for 20 30 years coming up to me going what do you think and I said I don't I don't I don't think we're related I mean yeah there's a resemblance but I don't think we're related well did you get a DNA test and I'm like no I don't there's nothing to get a DNA test for well I think he's your brother so people that know me and I'm telling him I don't think he's my brother now they want a DNA test to prove it that's how much it's taken on a life you think it's just because they want a DNA test cuz it's fun if he's your brother no they're convinced for real for real yes really for real I swear to God I mean PE people I'm close to people that were at my wedding I'm like they're like no you need a DNA test did Bill's dad know well did your dad know Bill's mom no my father wouldn't talk to me about it at all okay some more context text okay my stepmother in that same time 10 years ago when she told me that she thought Bill Burr was my half brother Jesus this guy don't know right I mean it just imagine if hey hey do you know Joe palansky right and you look up and it's a famous comedian that's you know I mean that right right so in that same uh thing with my stepmother she told me that she thought my father had SED 12 children whoa you know uh all over the place all over the place he was a traveling musician and a whore to his own admittance so it kind of makes sense he once told me had slept with a thousand women so 12 out of a thousand you know what I mean it's normal odds the ma yeah the ma actually pretty good yeah um and so um when I went to my father and I told him what my stepmother had said he got really Cy and wouldn't tell me anything he promised me that he would write down the names of the of the illegitimate children on a piece of paper so I could find them after he died oh my God and he died he's died and there's no paper oh my God so now I got people wanting DNA tests because they're convinced that bill is my half brother is Bill willing to do a DNA test I think that's ridiculous you know what I'm saying it's like no you have to do it no no that's that's what I'm saying I mean first of all to Bill's credit he's been you could everything you saw on camera was his I think his General irritation on the thing but he also kind of finds it funny because he's a comedian I thought it was a skit I thought you guys put together a skit I really did I thought you got cuz I thought you know Bill does a lot of acting I thought you guys were just fucking around you like pro wrestling I thought you guys just decided to troll the world let me put it to you this way have you ever seen it and I well I'm assuming but you tell me if I'm wrong two guys get in the ring to roll around a bit right okay they're Bros they're going to roll around a bit uhhuh emotions kick in and next thing you know somebody's tapping somebody out right do you ever see that happen for sure okay yeah so in the in the heat of that moment with Bill and hoe egging it on you know like the emotionality of the thing came out because it's a sort of an it's sort of a weird thing we're like we're suddenly in the middle of a situation it's like a meta situation right so yes on some level we were playing along but then it starts to become like wait this is kind of weird and then it starts to kick in and then Billy bush is in there and it just it took on a life of its own so what I'm saying is is there's enough there that people are all over me to come up with more answers but you see what I'm saying it's like it's spun out of control into its own thing now it's a DNA test problem Oh God which is a bit on its own like we're going to do like a live stream with we'll do it here me you and Bill like you know what I mean well people would trust you if the two of you got together and just both took a DNA test and found out you were brothers I don't think Bill's my half brother but he he looks well listen there's a simple way to find out I'll Finance it how much is a DNA test how much does a DNA test cost to find out if someone's your sibling Jamie let's find out it can't be that much money it's 2025 get it sponsored yes maybe 23 in me but didn't they get sell out to somebody somebody buy them 200s 200 bucks there you go I'll pay bucks to find out why would you want to know if I thought somebody was my half brother I'd be like for real I don't think it's necessary if I found out Sebastian Manalo was my half brother i' be like kind of I could kind of see that maybe again all I know is I don't think but when I look at him he looks just like my father right he doesn't look we look similarish but when when I look at him he's got the same thing as my dad had I don't know how to you would know if somebody looked like your dad so that's where it's freaky for me yeah and and you know uh if you want to play the game one step further you got two world-class communicators people might argue against me call myself world-class communicator but I've been doing it for over 30 years you're a world class commun God bless so it it's not too crazy that you'd have one guy go this way and one you know what I mean not at all no especially when you consider how many different ways you've gone like not just Smashing Pumpkins but pro wrestling you know it's like and and now and now I'm enter your game podcasting this episode is brought to you by better help being independent is good but you should never be afraid to ask for help when you need it after all we're only human we can't know everything that's why it's crucial to have a support system people you can go to when it gets rough think of friends family members your partner hell even even your dog when you're feeling down spending time with a furry friend could be a good pickme up but I get it sometimes you don't want to or can't go to them for help for these moments try therapy it can be a good source of support in any area of your life whether you're working on personal relationships job stress or something else therapy can teach you a multitude of different things to help you be your best self like how to set boundaries when to let go of toxic Rel relationships and what to do when you feel overwhelmed and even more importantly you can do it in a safe space if you think therapy might be a good option for you a good place to start is better help they have a diverse network of therapists and everything is online which can be very convenient if you need a last minute session it's also very easy to switch therapists if it's not working out build your support system with betterhelp visit betterhelp.com JRE to get 10% off your first month that's betterhelp hp.com JRE so you're in all kinds of stuff and you easily could have been a comedian as well I don't think I'm that funny but you're funny there's a lot of people that are professional comedians that aren't as funny as you uh I assume you know Carrot Top sure very well okay so Carrot Top and I become friends recently he's great love him this total sweetheart sweetheart of a guy really Master genuine just a great guy to know yeah but as you know because you do do this for a living suddenly everybody wants to start pitching you bits so I made the mistake of pitching carrat top a bit I thought I had a good bit for him and he didn't respond you know what I mean and then I texted him like an hour later I say hey did you get that bit they said he goes yeah that's why I didn't respond yeah people get tired of that also it's like most Comics they want it to be their idea like the whole idea you're what you're doing on stage is essentially like here's the world of my eyes I see yeah it's like somebody tell me write a song I get that right it's one thing for another Like Comics give each we give each other tags like if someone says something I said you know what else you can add to that at this oh I see we're a buddy of mine was doing this bit on the uh the guy who tried to shoot Trump and we were bantering back and forth and we came up with like the per perfect line like oh but it was already his premise and his bit Comics add to stuff for each other for fun it's like we we just we sort of you're tossing the ball around in the Green Room and then someone will come up with a new line for you we'll do that but no one ever says hey you should go on stage and talk about this yeah so that's I so I I've I've I've had a couple professional comedians Carrot Top pre preeminent among them kind of let me know you're not that funny it's probably not that you're not that funny it's first of all you send a text premises and text are terrible oh right okay like you really have to be tone tone is yeah it's everything and you really have to be there with the person and you really have to like say it the way you thought it and then they get it cuz then Texas just unless it's just genius unless it's just like Rock Solid structure like oh my God this joke Can't Fail well we do have a movie idea that we're working on oh yeah and it's a good one what is it I can't give it away I'll tell you privately but but it's a good one you in carop yeah oh nice that he likes okay he likes my my movie idea yeah I'm telling you a lot of it is that Comics don't like people coming to them with with a premise they don't they they they only want I I and they only want help from other Comics generally okay I get that yeah it's just one of those thing and even then it's touchy like I would never help somebody I don't know I'll would never go up to him hey you should say this like never never never never never it's got to be like your friend they know you love them you can you're fucking around you could talk you could say did you ever try to say that you know you know what you left out like you forgot and they're like oh I forgot about that yeah that's a big part of the bit Yeah I never tried stand up so that's you could do it it seems terrifying to me but so saying on stage you could do it it's a lot easier to scream with you know 50,000 Watts behind your voice you know than than tell a joke and bomb bom because you could suck at that and then it's terrifying too yeah yeah I mean it's all hard to do anything at the highest level it's hard to do that's true you're doing Arena shows I've watched a lot of people perform in front of Arenas singing It's hard that's a hard thing to do most people freak the fuck out yeah I don't know some that that part doesn't bother me strangely well that's why you're good at it right I feel like I'm I I kind of know what I'm doing up there for some reason well also I think it's like there's a buildup right you start working in small clubs you make your way to larger places and then eventually you sell more and more records like Smashing Pumpkins is like they burst on the scene and sort of keep get you guys kept getting more and more popular so you kind of got accustomed to it yeah you do normalize to the insanity of standing in front of 10,000 people same as comedy you normalize what's the biggest uh show you've ever done comedy 25,000 that's a lot of people yeah me and Chappelle we sold out the Tacoma Dome and we were we were standing backstage I'll never forget it he he looked at me like right before he goes on stage he goes not a lot of motherfuckers get to do this we were just laughing how fun much fun we were having 25,000 people it was crazy in the round too in the round it was very fun though it was very fun I actually know Dave from way back in the day he's the best when he first first kind of burst on the scene we used to hang out a little bit so I feel like it's cool that I knew him like what year is this like ear like remember he did like a couple things on SNL like really early on or he was kind of around TV it was like when he the first year he was on television I don't remember I'd see him in New York and he was hanging out with some other maybe it was cuz he was hanging out with SNL people oh and I'd see him out in New York back I gosh with like late 90s yeah early 2000s and so I knew him when I don't want to say he was a nobody but I like he wasn't he wasn't a known i' see seen him on TV but he wasn't like a household name like he is now right right and so it's so there there was this one night where I was out I did a benefit for Roger Waters and uh and Military vets it was amazing in New York it was all these guys who were like single double and triple amputees playing Pink Floyd music and so I did this concert with the with um Roger so afterwards somebody came said oh Chappelle's in this hotel you know and I hadn't seen him for a few years and I said well I know him and you could see people think like you don't know him you know what I mean so when he came by he like a you know was like that moment like see motherfuckers I do know him so what a great guy though such a he's a genuine person yeah he's another sweetheart just a sweet sweet guy easy to hang out with very fun oh yeah I mean the guy the guys with that kind of mind is just it's just it blows my mind because they just I mean you could I I just don't don't know I could sit listen to him for hours he's also he's kind of a legend for what he did you knowed away left Comedy Central in the height of Chappelle Show passed up on a 50 million doll deal went to Africa hung out there and then came back and didn't do standup for 10 years didn't I I didn't know that he didn't do standup for 10 years part he would do standup occasionally for free okay so what he would do is he'd bring like a speaker to the park and like set up a mic in the park in Seattle and just start doing standup and everybody like holy shit was he making any money or was he just nope just living off of his Chappel show money he had a ton of money I didn't know that part he made millions of dollars from the show passed up on 50 but probably made remember that and you know remember it became a big conspiracy thing yes it became a conspiracy he was saying no to the Illuminati all right right those are always funny some Alex stuff right you know mean it's like like what are you sure that's what happened I I kind of know what happened because the the the people that were running Comedy Central back then I had dealt with there were it was a it was nice folks shouldn't have been running comedy they shouldn't have been telling comedians what to do and they wanted to telling comedians what it was was a situation where a bunch of non-c creatives had gotten involved in the process I'm sure you're familiar that happens this so so dear to my heart it's disgusting it's the worst the worst aspect of Show Business you you start dealing with money people and then they start doing something that they're not supposed to be doing which was like adding changing directing moving ideas and then you're dealing with literal morons that somehow or another got this job and they're telling you how to do what you're doing which is what is the best sketch show in the world and still still popular it's as good as any sketch show that's ever existed and they only did two seasons so he just decides I'm just gonna be an artist I'm just gonna hang out I'm not gonna make any money he would do like show up at Open Mic nights so they'd have open mic nights for like musicians play folk songs and at the end of that like midnight he would pull up and start talking and by 15 minutes into his set everybody had told everybody that Dave Chappelle's there so then the place is packed yeah and he did this for like 10 years I didn't know that part yeah he just fucked around we you'd hear about him just showing up places and fucking around I love that and then somewhere I think it was like 201 13 14 starts doing standup again yeah and then boom yeah that's that's really how it all went down it's it's really a testament to his P the power of his talent because my wife who's 32 she loves him and it's so cool because like we went to see him I think at U Radio City Music Hall and and it's so cool cuz it's like you know I'm 57 she's 32 it's like that he can speak to both of us so yeah right right to the heart it's it's really a rare gift I mean he you know you got a picture out there Richard PRI who was you know from Illinois like myself and my father loved Richard prior and so because of my father's love Richard prior I paid a lot of attention to Richard when I was when I was a kid and he strikes me he's got that that Transcendent ability to somehow almost heal the country right with his messaging yes Murphy had that too in his own way but to me's more in the the prior mode of like somehow he can address issues that are uncomfortable yeah and and and and I know a lot of people have issues with what he says but I I ultimately see what he's trying to do is heal things yeah very much like prior whereas Eddie Murphy was just really really funny you know it's just really really funny and he still to this I always to this day I'm like why doesn't that guy come back he he did this one thing when he got the the Mark Twain award where he did this whole impression of Bill Cosby finding out they had to give away one of his Awards because of he was caught up in the Scandal and so he's doing a Cosby impression it's fucking genius it's dead on he's doing like brilliant standup and he hasn't touched standup in 253 years yeah I mean you would think he would just do one Victory lap to her I mean if he wanted to it would be sold oh my God and I guarantee you that guy would be the best he he was so fucking talented but just decid it was just too much I'd rather just do movies yeah which is kind of crazy but prior never did obviously prior kept doing has anyone ever tried to pull you in the movie movie orbit yeah yeah I'm action hero or yeah I'm not interested I'm not interested they only offer me Parts like a serial killer so I always turn it down yeah there's been a few tempting ones but um no I don't have that kind of time and I I also don't have the desire to do it it's not something I enjoyed like sitting on that set all day seems like a it's a lot of work it's hard and to be a real good actor like a really good actor you know the the rehearsing and the the practicing and the going over the character it's like I couldn't do it because I don't have the time I it would require everything I have yeah if you really wanted to do it right if I really wanted to do a role in a movie where I played somebody I would have to fucking really spend time not doing anything but that you know yeah it's just not that's not my jam there's people out there that do it I'm glad glad they do it cuz I love movies yeah but I don't want to do it did you watch the uh Oscars I did not me neither I never watch award shows I don't think you should give away awards for art I think it's silly I don't get it I think it's dumb I think it's all really who's making money is the people that are putting it on television I mean that's really what it is it's just a big money grab they're all just selling advertising and everybody's wearing a tux and it's like well certainly the Public's growing disinterest in Awards shows is some indication that people no longer believe in either the Integrity of the process or the or the maybe the intent of the process right the Integrity in the process and the intent are both compromised right because there's there's people that like you could kind of guess just by the subject of some movies whether not they're going to win an award because you know people feel obligated to address this very important message the guy who won uh best picture um I was actually in talks with about five years ago cuz he had made some really cool movies he made one on on a on cell phones call I think it was called Tangerine about prostitutes work in the streets in LA and he got two street workers I believe and then he cast them so it was a movie it wasn't a documentary it was a really beautiful movie and then he did that movie called The Florida project um where he at the end of the movie they actually snuck into Disney World and shot stuff and somehow Disney Let It Go really yeah um but it was kind of about the social millu around a place like Disney World like what goes on out outside the gates people living in motels in kind of Perpetual tourist economy kind of living hand to mouth and kind of using the tourist the white whale of Tourism to just get enough money because there's always some turnover you know whether it's running scams and stuff so he made a really beautiful movie about that as well so I I was in talks with him for a while about doing something and then it just didn't go anywhere like what kind of scams I can't remember because it's been a few years since but it's just the idea that anywhere there's a tourist economy there's money to be made right you know there's the guy standing on the corner C brochures or hustling you into a van to see where the Stars live it was kind of about that right right right about a cast of characters living in the shadow of of this idealistic place right just like those Hollywood tour people that you would get in La yeah yeah those were the the weirdest fucking people well I always get offended when I walked on Hollywood Boulevard and they think I want to go on it you know it's like I don't know what it is they I feel like I don't want to go on your tour you look like a guy totally I T just got off the boat yeah just came here from Nebraska totally yeah like gee I wonder where the Stars live you know that's such a creepy thing to do just drive around and point that's where Ben Affleck sleeps but they've been doing it since the 30s yeah forever yeah I mean I I have some of the old brochures you know see where Greta Garo lives and all that stuff it's just always been weird well back then it was even weirder because those were the first Stars well back then I mean they they they went way out of their way to turn them into odds you know that they airbrush the shit out of every photo and and they they cover up scandals there's that one famous Scandal where one of the top male Stars maybe it was Gary Cooper Carrie Grant ran somebody over in a car really you know about that no you might want to looked that one up I know the fat no it was a top a level star I think he was drunk ran over somebody in a car and somebody from the studio went to jail for like seven years and took the wrap wow so that the star could stay out and the studio paid the guy like a stien to go to jail wow it's a very famous story so some guy did seven years or something that's crazy you know there's a similar story about that in China with uh the Bodies exhibit you know that uh oh yeah yeah yeah there was a woman who was married to a mayor of uh one of the cities in China and this woman who was married to this mayor the the mayor was having an affair with a TV newscaster and she got the TV he got the TV newscaster pregnant and apparently there was a confrontation between the woman and the wife and the lady winds up missing she gets scrubbed from the internet I mean she's scrubbed there's only like a photo of her on the internet wow and then all of a sudden in the Bodyworks exhibit there's an eight-month pregnant woman oh no who they believe is this newscaster here's the other part the woman who's the the mayor's wife is also the manager of the local plat as ination Factory where they take the bodies and they imerge them they they immerse them in these solvents and turn them into statues this woman was the manager of the place that produced the woman with the eight-month fetus in her body and you can still see it like it's on tour you can go see this lady who was most likely murdered so then she didn't just kill that lady she poisoned some uh British uh businessman so she poisons this guy and she has to go to trial well she doesn't go to trial some other woman goes to trial who doesn't look anything like her raise her right hand D thing goes to jail so she probably paid some family off some poor family I'll give you a million dollars give up your daughter she goes to jail everybody's R it's not a bad jail she's going to do yoga play checkers have you heard the ones where like U cuz there's so much plastic surgery in Asia where guys are suing their wives because they marry some woman that they get hot and then the kid comes out and the kid's not very good looking jaw lines totally different different nose yeah there's a lot of plastic surgery over there in Korea it's nuts they do their eyes in this like strange some told me as much as 75% of the women in South Korea have surgery yeah is it really somebody who's Korean told me that I don't know if that's true go that Jamie we need to find this out this is important information cuz last time I was in Korea I was like wow these women here are really hot like this was like woman after woman after woman and somebody P me aside said bro that's like that's just all plastic surgery that's not real wow3 as many as up to 50% or higher maybe some people have said a lot of liars a lot of them ladies are lying about it up to 50% or higher well higher could be like 75% I like I like this whole new business of um like plastic surgery tourism where it's like cheaper to get on a plane and go somewh go turkey and get yeah somebody was recently trying to talk me to go to South Korea to get some work done on my face it's like so like what I guess the idea would be you could go and recover over there your neighbors don't have to see you with bandages over your head no I think it's the idea it's cheap it's cheaper yeah cheaper cheaper and better because they can do stuff there that we can't do here yet oh really what can they do there that if we apparently they have some new thing that's unbelievable what is it something it's they try to explain it to me it doesn't make any sense some kind of new facelift that's not a facelift or something a face like a non-invasive facelift oh the guy it's a relative of mine through marriage Chinese relative and uh he's in that business and knows the Koreans over there in LA and all this and he was saying he was saying in five years this will be the number one thing so you might as well get to Korea now I I the stuff I hear when I'm sitting around the hot pot dinner you know noninvasive face love isn't that weird that like that one of our biggest fears is that your face sags yeah I don't know I mean I don't know how I would feel if I wasn't in the entertainment business right I mean I mean you're in a cosmetic business on some level you know what I mean some level guess I know it's not help uglier I never I never thought of you as ugly I'm not I'm not attracted to men per se but but I never thought you were unattractive um definitely less attractive Than I Used to Be that's just time and booze and I know success success creates a glow around a man has a little bit of a glow right yeah little bit of a little Swagger well just age beats us all you know win nobody wins everybody looks worse at 80 than they do at 20 yeah just how it goes yeah I'm 57 so you kind of look I'm 57 to oh are you yeah when's your birthday August okay I'm older than you I'm March but you know you look down that that that road and you're like like like am I going to be all right when I get to 80 you know very few people are you know there's a few people in when you're calling UFC like 972 or like I you I don't know what the number would be but I'm worried about Bruce Buffer cuz Bru Bruce Buffer he puts out so much energy I was telling the guys the other day one day he's just going to be in the middle screaming someone's name and he's just going to fucking check out like right in the middle It's Time Boom his eyes will roll back but that's for any performer that's the way you go out you go out on your Shield right that would be amazing I don't want him to die I love him but if he did die that way I'd be like what a legend what a legend the buffers right both of them oh yeah isn't it crazy that they didn't know each other until they like 30 I even know he had a brother I only have UFC 313 is back in Vegas it won't be paradise for one of the light heavyweights in the main event don't miss out on any of the action at draftking Sportsbook the official sports betting partner of the UFC Alex Pereira defends his light heavyweight title against maged analay but that's just the cherry on top of an amazing night of fights it's super easy for first- timers to get started try betting on something simple like picking a fighter to win just go to draftking Sportsbook app select your fighter and place your first bet it's that simple and if you're new to DraftKings listen up new customers bet $5 to get $150 in bonus bets instantly download the draftking Sportsbook app now and use the code Rogan that's code Rogan for new customers to get $150 in bonus bets when you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings the crown is yours gambling problem call 1800 gambler in New York call 8778 Hopey or text hope Andy 467 369 in Connecticut help is available for problem gambling call 888 78977 77 or visit ccpg dorg please play responsibly on behalf of booill Casino and Resort in Kansas 21 and over age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction void in Ontario new customers only bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance for additional terms and responsible gaming resources see dk. c/ audio I only have one Michael offer story if you want to hear it sure so I went to see uh Holyfield Lennox Lewis at Madison Square Garden oh wow and I was hanging out with all the all the cool people at time so I'm in the fourth row and it was infamously a draw it was almost all English tourists that had come in for the fight they were booing the national anthem I mean it was a pretty rius atmosphere and uh you know I'm I'm I don't know anything about fights but it was a pretty boring fight and it I I it Lewis seemed to be a little bit more agile because of Youth and all that anyway so right when I uh you know there they in whatever they're doing HBO they're over there in the corner they're doing their bit you know what I mean they're talking before they go to the scorecards and a guy leans forward the the ref to tell someone in the second row might have been Don King and I heard him go it's a draw right so I I knew it was a draw like 60 seconds before they announced it oh and I was with a lot of well-known people and I said run and they're like what do you mean I said we got to run like and I started grabbing people and we ran out of Madison Square Garden and we're almost totally out the building you know kind of where we get to The Concourse part and you hear the decision and it's like and people start like here comes the riot Vibe really so somehow we ended up because it got so was it because the decision was bad well the English people didn't like the it was a draw oh cuz Holyfield was on the older side and right I don't know it's not a well-renowned fight I I can't remember it it was just a draw it was a stone cold boring fight but because it was a draw and all these English people were mad and Don King was involved so it was like all that typical brewhaha that was going on in boxing at the time anyway so because of the suddenly the rius or potentially rius situation the police started like making people go different ways like funneling traffic or something you it was almost like they got like code red or something cuz like suddenly got really weird so then we couldn't get out of the building so somebody was like somebody recognized somebody in our party follow me and so then next thing we know you know we get we end up like in the VIP backstage part where it's safe and and there's and there's you know uh Michael Buffer on a chair and he wasn't talking to be but he's talking to somebody and I heard him was go that's bullshit like in that voice that's all I remember that's bullshit that's so was he talking about the decision he thought the decision was bullshit you know the lot of men's card was heavy for Lewis wow 117 111 Harold Letterman who's always dead on the money Harold Letterman was always right yeah so they were saying as it got called like this is a travesty yeah I mean I mean again I'm not a I mean I'm not a fight of fish andado but I I thought Lewis was slightly better wow I forgot about this fight I completely forgot about this fight there's so many fights from this era that were incredible that was an amazing era for heavyweights and this is when Don King was still running everything did they have a rematch I don't I honestly don't remember you don't think so no I think so I want to type it in it said two let me see lot bullshit there's a lot that great voice that voice he's still trucking he's still trucking he still announces huge I wonder what like like CU you ever get that like like like somebody wants you to do their bar mitz for anything you ever get those requests no get those request will you come do my bar mitzvah who won this one is that the match had to be Lewis right I would imagine similar Letterman card s similar card let's see if they robbed him twight they gave it to him yeah well they got their got their rematch um no you get this thing like hey will you come do my I wonder what Michael Buffer gets to show up somewhere you know what I mean yeah it's probably like Saudi Arabia they have him come over there and introduce someone's is it half a mill half a million think probably more depends you know I mean like you know in bus we could they call privates right I saw Stone Temple Pilots they played uh Dana White's 40th birthday party yeah and uh there was no one in the room other than UFC employees and they put on a show like it was a fucking sold out Arena I mean full blast went they didn't go through the motions at all it was a phenomenal show that means Dana paid him yeah yeah it was a money I mean totally I love I love those guys but they were so professional it was like it was so impressive and because they were so like powerful on stage everybody just started paying attention because it kind of broke out in the middle of this party where it's birthday party while standing around tables eating food having fun it's I've done a few things and it's always a bit awkward yeah which is weird because they're all paid gigs right but something about a paid paid gig feels different yeah it's there's a lot of entitlement it's attached to like someone's paying you to come perform well and then you see the guy's wife going who who who's this right there's that too the people that aren't fans you're like oh no yeah yeah those are weird gigs because then you how much I could have a one shitty night for a million dollars I mean I I'd like to tell you I haven't been there but I've been there Ron White did one last year in Vegas and he was talking about he's like I don't I didn't want to do it I kept saying no and they kept going higher and higher and eventually got to a point where like oh fuck it I'll do it and he goes it wasn't worth it he he goes it was one of the worst fucking nights of my life he goes all the time I'm doing it I'm thinking I shouldn't have fucking done this he said they didn't laugh they barely paid attention it's like why am I here but if like you're a giant fan like say if you're a giant Ron White fan and you hire Ron White but you're like office doesn't give a shit about comedy and they just want to like have fun and drink and eat hot dogs yeah I went to a build billionaire Thing Once with a guy had hired Diana Ross whoa it had at least be a million-dollar gig for her and maybe 700 800 people wow you know and you're like wow I mean basically a private concert with Diana Ross I mean that's pretty dope if you were really into it and people paid attention it' probably be fun small intimate I've done them where they're fun yeah yeah what percentage less than 50 we don't get at to be fair or not fair we don't get asked to it a lot I don't think we're on most people's bingo card for a private event yeah I think I think my my my rep precedes me you know it's like a beyon thing although I mean have you ever heard some of the numbers that some of those pop people get get coming out of Saudi Arabia yeah 14 mil and nobody calling us for you know what I mean like I take that phone call well that's one of those things if like who is that um the richest man in India his son had a birthday and it was like the most extravagant birthday spent 50 50 mil on entertainment alone something crazy like that God it's so crazy that's so much money yeah I mean I wish there was a perfect formula for it but there isn't because that's what I mean I mean we we play every time we play we basically get paid I think it was a wedding not a birthday party right it was a wedding yeah he got like yeah lenx Lewis was the announcer yeah it's just that's the weird world of uh extravagant amounts of money like unbelievable amounts of money where you want to hire con come to your wedding was 100 million that's where Beyonce spent over 100 million for a non sister isa's wedding in 2018 the ceremony featured of performance by Beyonce I mean if I'm Beyonce's manager she's not going over there for less than 2025 yeah why not they have so much money they they won't even notice it they'll make it back tomorrow on the stock market I don't know I'm saying that so when you get to that goofy that was 10 how many million 190 well that that no I'm sorry um how billion how much is Heth 16 billion 116 yeah you're making $20 million every day probably it's like rolling in constantly I mean you've you've met I mean you just had a billionaire in here a couple days ago yeah I mean you've met your share of billionaires it's always an interesting thing how they how they how they spend or don't spend their money mhm it's there's no consistent guide for billionaires no I like the Jeff Bezos way wear tight shirts get a yacht have a hot girlfriend let's fucking go that's what you're supposed to do when you've got $250 billion you're not supposed to be a fucking weirdo and wear a sweater and go visit Haiti no you're supposed to be balling go to the Mediterranean popping corks with models let's go you're get a get a million dollar watch like have a billion dollars to to to make that decision see right I'm not there yet well the weirdest one is billionaires that compare themselves to Super billionaires and they feel poor like Brian call was telling me about his buddy who's worth I think $3 billion do and he's like I really need to fucking up my game cuz he's friends with a guy who's worth $80 billion so he feels poor compared to his 80 billion friend boy I'd like to be poor like that the forest for the trees yeah I don't know yeah not not this lifetime I don't think it doesn't seem like fun it seems like the amount of stress and energy that must be required to acquire that much fucking money yeah um uh Jimmy Chamberlin of the pumpkins the drummer uh is friends with Jimmy John the sub the subk okay so I know Jimmy John a little bit and we were at dinner one night in Nashville at a at a place he owns or with other people and one of my buddies started pitching I'm on like some kind of money thing and I just saw his face change cuz everybody in the world wants to we're back to pitching ideas right of course and uh and and and Jimmy John knows this mutual friend so it's not as rude as it might sound coming out of my mouth but at some point he looks at me goes Tommy you know how I got that money I made a lot of fucking sandwiches that was the way you shut him down the like like yeah I know how I know what I had to go through to make that money like you just you just see me as a walk in ATM yeah well it just changes the dynamic of the friendship now too now he's not going to be able to trust your friend well no nobody trust nobody trusts Tommy that's Tommy's a mess Tommy Tommy's Infamous actually Infamous yes everybody infa Dash mess um I've literally been walking down the street in foreign countries and strangers will come up to me and say oh you know Tommy he's like he's just a legendary character in the was he trying to pitch Jimmy John on uh some kind of investment scheme or something because uh uh my friend Tommy collects billionaires oh boy I I I call it uh he plays billionaire Lotto he's hoping that when one of them knocks over they'll leave him you know a taste yeah how bizarre he's like a vampire familiar well what's interesting about Tommy is his uncle was the the founder of Hard Rock Cafe oh so he grew up in a family with money so in instead of somebody who we figure was poor and aspirational want to hang out with billionaires he actually came from money right so he knows how to speak the language of wealthy people and so he's kind of generally welcome in those circles where I you know I grew up in the poor in the suburbs I don't know how to role in that world and so yeah but yeah Tommy I think he's probably up to about seven or eight billionaires that he counts his friends and what does he do for a living this time no one knows no one knows that's the legend of Tommy really yeah and in fact I pitch Tommy once I'm making a documentary called who the fuck fuck is Tommy lipnik that's his name Tommy lipnik and uh and he doesn't like the idea yeah I wonder why it just outed him but I mean we don't have time for it but I could make you a list of 50 people that are super famous like Bono on down who have pulled me aside and go what's the deal with Tommy right and just the fact that we're talking about Tommy will really please Tommy but he'll he'll take umage in fact I have to tell you a story about my father too but he'll take umage with with the the the way I'm portraying him I'm sure you will the story I wanted to tell you about my father was when I was on your show um I told you a story about how I found a d a double barreled saw off shotgun under my father's bed it was in a guitar case right well my father heard the show about a month after I told the story on your show and so I get this text from my fathers when he's still alive obviously and and and he goes yeah I heard what you said on on Joe's show and I'm like you know you're looking at your phone like here it comes you know cuz I thought he's going to be pissed at me he goes there's one thing you left out of the story waiting text the shotgun wasn't loaded that's all he wanted me to know like somehow it made it better how bizarre your father sounds like a fucking character he was unbelievable unbelievable what what did he play guitar great great great musician really truly a great musician he's he's the classic guy that should have made it it didn't so when I made it it made the whole thing really weird oh because he looked at me and said how did my schlubby kid make it and I didn't wow he must have got lucky he must have done something cuz if it didn't work for me how could it work for him so that was a weird a weird thing but he was talented I mean he really was talented that's crazy did he did you get a did you feel resentment did you get along with him after that my father had a lot of issues with drugs so it was always kind of like it can be with addicts it was like depending on the day one day he would tell me I was the greatest thing that ever happened to and I was the number one son and da d da and two weeks later he's telling me he wished I'd never been born and I should have been aborted so it was a weird it was weird it was a weird thing so that's why that's why that story is funny to me because he didn't mind that I told you about finding a s off shotgun he minded that I implied it was dangerous when he made sure that it wasn't loaded so it was okay that's the way his brain worked do you believe him that it wasn't loaded yeah yeah yeah yeah he was um he should have been an arch criminal or something but he didn't have the nerve so he just became a guitarist no he was he was a drug dealer and uh he he he used to run drug drugs and guns for the mob I mean really oh he he would do stuff like uh Melrose Park is kind of an Infamous City just outside the Chicago city limits where a lot of the mob Wise Guys lived and he was friends with the kid of a wise guy and the kid would dabble because he was protected because his father was a maid man so we go over to that guy's house for hours and just hear these crazy crazy stories about the mob and my dad would pick up something in the satchel and deliver it you know like it was that's that's I I was 8 years old going through all this shit wow what a crazy environment so you're 8 years old he's running drugs and guns oh yeah wow did you see like a lot of shit I I saw a lot of stuff but it was like you know when when adults are trying to hide stuff from you but not really uhhuh you know so like for example they would stay in the basement all night and party whoever he was with musicians whatever right so I come down at night and it'd be Coke everywhere and rolled up 20s on Black Sabbath mirror I was like seven 10 oh my God so I had a feeling call it intuition I had a feeling that he he wanted me to clean up but not the mirrors and he was and I was like what's on the mirror that you know that you left behind he was like oh that's uh we have a cold or something but yeah it's good you didn't get rid of it and they like why do you need the rolled up 20 oh it's just easier to you know was like so you knew it was bullshit but you're 10 you don't know what Coke is you don't have any concept of what they're doing but you know something's going on and this was constant this was yeah and my dad would do stuff like he'd take me to lunch with his Mistresses and stuff and introduce them as his friends and wow so it was all kind of in plain sight weirdness but you know you'd be driving down the street and suddenly you were in a drug deal and it was just whoa he told me he told me he was shot at nine times and stabbed three times holy shit yeah you want to hear was one of my favorite stories yeah so um uh the band had a van um he had a van and we bought it off him it was our band van for a while and then after we were we didn't need it anymore because we got too big he wanted to buy it back so we sold it to him so one day I went over to his house and uh if you know if this is the driver's thing well right behind the driver's where the driver's head would be but in the middle of the car was a bullet hole so I said did somebody shoot at you he goes oh yeah yeah yeah what happened exactly he's like yeah I I was I was stopped over there on nanit and and some guy came up and I thought he needed something like a dollar or something so I rolled down the window and soon as I did he put a gun through the put a gun through the window at my head and then you know I hit the gas and sped off and so was I went he tried to shoot me but then he missed and the bullet went in behind my head and I got away that's the story told at the time so years later the story came back up somehow he goes oh that wasn't the real story here's the real story so the same setup he's sitting somewhere but it was a drug deal he rolls down the window to make the drug deal guy puts a gun at his head he does hit the gas the guy does try to shoot him but because my father's mad now he spins the van around he tries to run the guy over and the guy's Trucking down the street and the guy ran into a gas station so my dad came barreling into the gas gas station at full speed in this van and he was going to run the guy over and he said he reached a point where the guy was going to if if the guy stopped he would run him over but the guy leapt a fence and the only way to kill the guy was to have to run the fence and RAM into a house that was next to the gas station so he hit the hit the brakes and didn't run the guy over so that was a real story so back to the kid thing excuse me that's why it's so hard to pin this whole thing down because there's so much smoke you know right like he did tell me there was another kid named Bill that's a real thing and and when he told me when I was 18 he lied and said he didn't know where the kid was well when my stepmother brought up the whole bill birth thing later and I asked him he admitted that he did know where the kid was but he didn't want to tell me what did Bill think about this like the possibility that his mother had an affair with your dad I I don't I don't think Bill gives it any Credence I mean that's my sense of it okay he just thinks it's bullshit I I don't know I honestly I don't know what Bill thinks you know what I mean cuz because I could see how you would think it'd be possible because your dad was insane your dad sounds like a fucking Maniac I mean the only the only way the only way wouldes movie Maniac well it put this way if a person doesn't believe that somebody is their father not their real father that they grew up with and I do know people who had that they grew up with somebody and they in fact it just happened in my family right that the cousin of mine found out that her father was not her father and she's in her 60s because of a DNA test oh my God so uh it is possible that people can find out later in life oh by the way that guy that you thought was your dad he ain't your dad here's your real dad right right so it does happen but I don't get any sense from Bill that he believes that's possible so the only way would be possible if if Bill grew up in some kind of weird lie you see what I'm saying and I don't believe that right right well I don't know he's I don't know know how much he's talked about his family but that's I guess just can't imagine a kid coming downstairs and seeing Coco over the mirrors and Black Sabbath albums and people blacked out and empty booze everywhere like like this is a normal thing thing at your house to have these wild parties and you're I think to be fair I think a lot of people grow up in that atmosphere I think we just don't hear about it yeah but not a lot of people grew up with the dad that's running guns and drugs for the mob that's true that's true that is true that's so insane that's such a crazy way like would have conversations like we would have conversations cuz you know as you get older you start to ask questions right so I'd say Dad aren't you worried like if you get pulled over you know CU he would carry like a lot of fucking weed in the car just for his own personal use he smoked constantly like my whole childhood like I mean I just remember joint after joint all day at the dinner table in the car i' contact high and the whole thing so finally at some point I said Daddy aren't you worried about if you get pulled over and he he like popped the the the the engine you know old cars you know when you Pop the trunk what is it called the hood the Hood um he had figured out some system where you could if you put if you put weed in a in a in a thing full of whiskey he said that dogs couldn't pick up on the scent so there was like a compartment in the engine compartment like a thing that was full of whiskey and then he would put a a waterproof baggie with the wheat in the whiskey and so that if a dog came around the car it would never never smell it that's a hilarious so was like life lessons you know from pop how many but dogs can only smell one thing they're only looking for one thing when you train a dog you train a dog either for a bomb or you train them for heroin you don't train a dog for everything like what do you got three barks for Coke the the way they train dogs is it's one thing that they're trained to right they have one yeah they're if they're looking for bombs they're only looking for bombs they're not going to stop you for weed yeah I don't know which is like the dumbest thing to train a dog for if you train a dog for weed I mean well now yeah no it's the dumbest but they still do they still have weed dogs yeah yeah yeah if they smell weed they'll call the weed dog is weed legal in Texas I it's not it's weird it's decriminalized there was actually a lawsuit that Ken Paxton tried to stop Dallas from decriminalizing weed and they just lost in court so Dallas now marijuana's decriminalized for personal use it's stupid it should be the whole country it should be leag just like whiskey is don't do it if you don't want to do it but you know you should probably know what the effects are and we should probably study what the actual correct doses per person like we know what drinks like one drink is one drink right you know what it is yeah you go to the the bar you get a shot at tequila that's what it is it's one shot of tequila everybody's pretty much it's standard with weed you don't know what the oh I see yeah you don't know what's the right amount like should I take two hits or three hits what you can build up a tolerance like your dad you're just smoking wheat like if I smoked wheat all day long I'd be fucking mess I'd be paranoid and freaked out i' be like everyone's to get me but he was and he just kept doing it that's what's even crazier and weed back then was not weed today it's you probably could get some weed that's commenor it with weed today aao gold or something wacky but generally they have all these crazy strains now right isn't that though now they have scientists you botanists got involved in the game and they they they're making super weed I noticed one thing cuz I was in LA for a couple months this winter and when they first whatever decriminalized in La it seemed like everywhere he went everybody was smoking weed it became like a thing you couldn't go anywhere without smelling you know the Telltale smoke and now it seems to have calmed down and I think it's almost like now it's like Holland back in the day where it's like so normal it's no longer a thing to like openly smoke weed like so I think it's gone back to a oh it's not that big a deal which I think is probably best because there was a year there where you would go there and everybody was stoned mhm you couldn't get service at a restaurant like I mean it was like people were staring off into space ades yeah well for sure you're going to have like a normalization period after a while where it's like weeds normal it's just like everyone's not drunk all the time even though you can get liquor everywhere you choose when to embibe and when not to or not to at all that's you're supposed to have choices you're an adult you're an adult human being the analogy I always make is imagine if it was the three of us in a room just just us three and we were the only people on Earth we lived on an island and uh Jamie just decided he doesn't want us smoking weed and so uh Jamie passed the law and he wants to lock us up if we smoke weed oh I see that's just as ridiculous as 300 million people and one adult decides that the other 300 million people shouldn't be allowed to smoke weed like do it if you want to do it don't do it if you don't want to do it but you can't putting people in a fucking cage for doing something that they want to do that harms no but you don't want them to do is fucking insane it's just insane well I I I grew up because of my my father's life I mean I don't know what age I became conscious of my do my father doing drugs constantly but let's say was 5 years old so that's 1972 so I've been in weed culture since 1972 Jesus so I always thought it was Vietnam War Days yeah yeah and I met all those guys too you know these guys with PTSD and all that stuff um wow so I guess what I'm after is I I never understood what the big deal was and the only thing that freaks me out are people that are really into weed like you know what I mean like the 420 CR like that's their identity that freaks me out yeah it's a crutch for some it's a tool for others you know it's a creativity tool for a lot of people you know Carl San was one of them Carl San Carl San was a stoner oh yeah huge Stoner he's got one of the best quotes on States Of Consciousness that are that are available to people under cannabis that are not available any other time see if you can find that quote it's a brilliant quote Yeah Carl Sean I mean he kind of had to keep it under wraps a little bit because marijuana was really illegal back then but he still wanted to talk about it sometimes just it depends on the person it's like everything else there's some people that should not drink they drink and then their eyes turn to shark eyes they they're gone and they go away that's it the illegality of cannabis is outrageous and impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the Serenity and insight sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world that's not the quote that's a quote but the the other one had to do with States Of Consciousness that were that you could achieve see it's a very Stoner likee thing to say yeah um well I'm sure he talked about it a bunch but either way he was a a a regular cannabis User it's supposed to be like everything else you know like you could have wine in your house it doesn't mean you're going to drink wine all day every day you know just you should not be high all the time I just don't want the 420 people need hear me well it's like those those people like the Maga people or like the fucking insane clown posy people like it's just like it becomes their whole thing that's the thing there's nothing wrong with going to an insane clown posy show but if you want to be a jug and that's your whole identity is being jug jug is a whole you know a whole thing we've done B because of the NWA we've done business with with the the the jugal they seem like fun guys they're great no problem with them um you know violent Jay as he's known I was in the NWA for a hot second oh really and he's kind of ref fired uh his his promotion now Jugo I guess JCW Jugo clown promotions or something i' so a lot of my wrestlers wrestle for him too so oh okay I didn't even know he had a wrestling promotion they did back in the day they used to wrestle I know they wrestle for WCW and TNA so they were they were wrestling at the highest level for a while when they were sort of in the 90s times um when they were on MTV and all that stuff I just love that they have like a carnival of outcasts you know they like all the outcasts have a home in The Jug and they're all like they have these gatherings of the jugl they look like they're having the best fucking time like they're all like-minded people all partying together yeah but it's freaky when people will admit secretly being Jugos have you ever had that experience they pull you aside uh a friend of mine former former porn star Sasha gr like sent me a picture of her at like 17 in The Jug makeup oh wow 17 and you're like this is so out there jug makeup do they dress they do it's a very specific they do they do a very specific makeup jug the juggles do they have different make than the Insane Clown posi or is it the same kind of makeup it seems to me there's there's a kind of a particular way they do The Jug makeup Jamie can you please Google jug makeup yeah I think it's a black and white I don't know if there's rules but it's uh yeah clown makeup it like that guy right there yes but that's Violent J on the top there J but like they'll do their makeup kind of like how Jus is okay so some of the people in the audience choose to to make their face up I don't see anybody there with face makeup though in that picture sure it's hot it's a summer oh yeah there you go sweating washed off sweating off your makeup see like the girl there that split tongue that dude in the middle that's a fucking commitment that's a commitment for to never having a real job up top that's a lot you got to really hate your parents to split your tongue like that how about the guys who split their cock have you ever seen that yes who does that do you remember the early days of the internet um I don't know how much you were on the internet in the 9s but there was uh a page called the style project do you remember that don't remember that it was all like some of the most fucked up thing things that this dude could find on the internet okay and he had a whole website and you would you go to the style project and you get like just insane fucked up stories about people and one of them was body modification extreme and uh I became friends with the guy who ran the site who's actually that arm wrestler Devin lauriat I think that was his brother or someone he's related to was Shannon lauriat I became friends with him and he gave me access to his website and it was like a members only access where you could like so you got the the the VIP tier of split Cox oh my God it wasn't just split Cox it was crazy stuff like some people they decided that they wanted to get their arm chopped off or their so theyed a guillotin it was body modification extreme so it was all different people doing different things like putting like horns in their head and splitting their cock and and put and one of them was this horrible story about this guy whose boyfriend turned him into a unic wanted him to cut his dick off for him and be a slave and like oh my God and this it's like detailing how this guy cut his cock off yeah Donnie Fargo who was a famous wrestler he was famous for um as a party trick he would put a nail through his cock that's not nice you know I had uh David Blaine on and he made me stick an ice pick through his arm yeah he's got this trick that he does it's not a trick though I really stuck an ice pick through his arm it's like you could call it a trick but a lot of things David does is just it freaks you out because like you should but you know you can survive an ice pick through your arm but I had to back it out because I hit a nerve and uh he made me reinsert it and so I reinserted it and uh then the original one started bleeding and it got like a little bit of a hematoma started swelling up we had to get the Medics and we had seals working for us they they checked it out because of all this body talk my wife loves all sorts of weird Body Talk um and she she wanted me to send you a message cuz she's literally about to have a baby like right now oh congratulations so we were somewhat concerned coming in because it was possible I may not be able to come because of her about to have this baby so um when we were talking um last night I said please don't have the baby today you I want to be on Joe's show and she said you tell Joe that if I start to have the baby um I expect him to give you some of his net jet points so you can get home ah it's a very very rich person joke that's hilarious what does that have to do a body modification nothing because she loves talking about this type of sh why she like talking about that stuff I don't know it's like but in my family we didn't talk about anything sex you know was all just kind of implied oh I see you see what I'm saying I grew up in a family where nobody hugged nobody kissed everyone hated each other and and nobody talked about the secrets of life you know good or bad was all kind of in the shadows you know I mean and she grew up in a family where it's like cuz she has five brothers and a a sister so they talk about everything like to the point where just like at dinner like you're talking about all this like weird body stuff I don't want to be graphic because it turns me off you know but they seem to think it's funny when did you learn to hug people and be like outwardly nice um it's funny you asked me that my I didn't grow up with my mother um my mother went crazy when I was four and I'd never live with her again and we started to become close again when I was in my 20s and I I remember this one time where I walked through her door and it was that thing where I wanted to hug her because I never really hugged her my whole life and I just made this decision at 24 like I was going to hug my mother and give her a kiss on the cheek yeah and it was like that was the opening of this other life where people hug and kiss each other you know what I mean I mean obviously I had fool around with girls but it was only within the context of of being romantic I had no physical affection in my life outside of that now my kids are all over me and you know I get nine and six year old so it's like I'm used to kids like you know Rugrats climbing all over you but I didn't grow up in that at all like I had no the idea of affection was was Al alen in fact when I first started chasing girls at 178 you know girls want to hold your hand or hug you you know in the car and I was like so freaky to me when did you relax I'm not sure I ever did well I gave you a hug when I saw you today it seemed pretty normal no I I I'm I I'm I'm actually very naturally affectionate person and it was it's nice to give you a hug and it's nice to see you and it's nice to love on people that you admire and are your friends and that's the great stuff of life but I came very late you could even see I'm just uncomfortable and then you know our our our I'm sure you know hoe Mandel you must I mean hoe with this his his I I made the mistake of hugging hoe once and I mean I mean you know I kill his cat you know yeah it's ex him like you tased him that poor bastard it used to be you could touch knuckles with him he'll touch Knuckles he will I'm I'm I'm I'm close nles again I'm I'm close enough to how he to touch Knuckles he stopped touching Knuckles and then he would do uh elbows you would touch elbow and then he got to air elbows he would just kind of like do that and then put it down I am a lead singer so I do do some of these he's hanging out with us in the Green Room at the comedy Mothership and then he's going on stage and there's comic before him has the same microphone they're spitting into it he's holding on to it see I'm I'm I'm I think I'm secretly a germaphobe but really yeah secretly he just talked about it we you know like how how's like how that's another level he talks about it though he knows it's a problem he just can't overcome it for whatever reason and he manages to sort of like have it and still work his way through life like he was fun to hang out with it's not like he's freaking out about other stuff like he was cool hanging out with just talking I I had him on my podcast and we we did talk about it hasn't aired yet but we we talked about all his I guess phobias would be the word conditions I mean there's all these letters you know ad D HD o c that he's very open about it to his credit yeah no he is yeah he talks about it and it's you know it's been a battle for him but it's just like it's so odd because he's so personable like you expect that someone like that would be like a recluse wouldn't like people like get away from me everybody but he's not he's like super friendly super friendly except when he puts you in front of a professional comedian who's kind of irritated that you're there and claiming you're his half brother oh yeah that was probably a bad pairing I feel like both of you are kind of a lot in a good way I would have one of you on by the I wouldn't want you and Burr together on he's such an alpha I mean he's he's just one of those guys he just can't help it yeah well he has to make fun of everything too what say oh yeah that's a fucking great idea what about this right he can't help himself yeah one point he looked at me actually I was wearing this coat he goes where'd you get that like a Moroccan Bazaar like this is a very expensive coat it's like a normal coat I understand that seems normal I look at a North Face or something but I I'm I'm asking you this in an empathetic way but um because you're a professional comedian so maybe it's different but when when a professional comedian puts their death ray on you and wants to make fun of you yeah it's a very particular feeling it's like getting carved up by a chef right you know I mean cuz they they're so good at yeah Z Zoro you know it's kind of it's kind of cool it's like wow I'm being insulted by Bill Burr you know what I mean it's like it's kind of an honor yeah you know but at the same time it's like it's really fucked up because like they know exactly where to poke you also you can't fire back you'll get killed right if you fire back that's what I'm saying he's going to chew you apart yeah I what I'm going to tell him like make a little joke yeah there's not much you can do other than laugh along with it you just have fun with it just let let them make fun of you and have fun yeah that's all you can do but it feels like a death that's that's it's like especially a guy like Bill who's a really who like the meanest comedian you ever kind of locked horns on you the meanest at that kind of stuff but he's one of my best friends is Tony hinchcliff he's the best at it he's the fucking I just found out I just found one the other day from quite a while ago I'm goingon to send you this because this is like young fresh face Tony Hinchcliffe it's fucking hilarious and this is just like off the cuff they bring in these dudes and he starts roasting them just random dudes yeah just two guys and they're they're they team up and they start talking shit to him and he just eats them alive put your headphones on this one's hilarious all right here we go he's the best raster on planet Earth nobody's better than Tony Hinchcliffe that's why kill Tony so funny part of the reason is he's so fast did you get it Jamie okay wrest what the you got on wrestling shoes you guys are mean Jimmy Neutron and granddaddy right here you guys look like a before and after for a product that doesn't work what does ADD stand for a dose of diabetes okay they ready for idot are wearing sweatpants and sweat skin you guys just completely giv up on py is that right maybe Doughboy not me I'm out here Doughboy wait what his name his name is Doughboy Doughboy yeah I spell it d o b o y he think yeah I had a feeling you'd misspell it you guys are two my favorites two chins and ASAP Rocky Road wow wow just off the cuff out of nowhere and he does that all day long so he'll do that in the green room he just turns on people in the green room and it's fucking amazing we have like when we do these shows like uh Tuesday or Wednesday night or whenever we're there where everyone's in the like Tuesday and Wednesday nights are really good night at the club CU all the comics that are traveling on the road on the weekend they come into the club to hang out during the weekday and so there' be like eight or nine of us in the green room just talking shit about each other and Tony's just cutting up left and right this one that one it's oh it's so much fun he's the best at it though you do not want to fuck withow with I'm going to say right now I don't think he's my brother he's definitely not your he don't look anything like you it's a completely different Gene line now he make fun of me for saying I'm not his brother so did Bill know that you're going to be there with him or was it just like how he just decided to put two of you together I got the feeling that that bill wasn't really given the heads up yeah probably it was a little bit irritating to him Bill get easily irritated but that's also why he's so funny like he's he gets mad gets mad at everything you know yes and my mind doesn't work like that so it's hard like I I would have a better time understanding like a like a rocket scientist than a professional comedian I think really because because the the professional comedians I've known personally a little bit like Bobcat gold weight and or Carrot Top their minds are so different than the average human mind I think the way they process information and they're looking for something that you almost like a meme it like coales is a whole set of ideas that's what makes it funny right you can it works on all these different levels at one time the great comedians like dice to me is the greatest and and and dice will tell a joke it it works on like eight different levels you know it's like High Low Middle do you know what dice's best stuff is you want like people don't understand that dice is literally one of the best best live performance artists just random street artists oh I I watch him you mean when he just goes up to people OHS that these people wanted a photo with him and they don't know who he is it's the face you want the face you want the picture and he just goes he fuck and it's so it's so uncomfortable to watch you start pulling your fucking clothes off like no don't do this like what are you doing he's the best at and he he does that for zero money this is he's there's he's only doing that for fun that's it he's just being an artist like there's no money in it at all and he spends all this time wandering around the streets going to bars and restaurants and just bothering people wandering PE up to people on the street in New York City they're waiting for the light to turn green you want the picture I just love that he'll he'll just double and triple and quadruple down on oh yeah on the on the bit Yeah like he just won't give it up he won't give it up zud is the same thing with the with you know Tony Clifton just the the discomfort of it all yeah um well dice is the only guy ever in the peak of his Fame to try to bomb on purpose and then release it as a two CD set is that the night comedy died yeah unbel that that that is so I love the day the laughter died the day the laughter died Rick Rubin produced it and Rick who's a fucking Maniac loved the idea he loved it he's like what a great idea this is going to be amazing dice is selling out Madison Square Garden like more than anybody alive like he's just selling out everything and the height of this he decides to record on a night where no one knows he's going to be there and bomb no material just talk off the top of his head sometimes don't even try to be funny I've I've listened to it multiple times and it's one of the funniest things I've ever heard it's performance art it's like him on the street going you want the picture you know and if look if he couldn't kill regular way I wouldn't respect it because there's people that do comedy that pretend they're doing like anti-comedy cuz regular comedy is too easy the problem is they're not good at regular comedy if you're like hilarious at regular comedy and then you say I'm G to freak these people out by get hitting them with some he would do this thing at The Comedy Store where he would go on stage and see how long he could not talk yeah I saw him do it once he'll go like five minutes minutes five minutes he's going and no one knows what to do and people are like nervously laughing laughing but he also could fucking kill like in the Rody Dangerfield special you know when he did dice rules like he could destroy an arena fill with people so it was a choice do this who's your favorite alltime comedian I'm just curious God I don't think I have an all-time favorite I think prior probably is the greatest of all time not living with Chappelle being the greatest living I think that you have to you have to give credit to Lenny Bruce though he really started the art for him because before Lenny Bruce comedy was just a series of jokes it was just jokes and Lenny Bruce came along and all of a sudden he had social commentary had cultural commentary that he turned into humor he the way he described relationships the way he described marriage the way he described it was like completely different it's like what is this guy doing and then I think prior took that and made it funnier prior took that and that honesty I never I never connected that dot but it makes sense when you say it yeah because he was just funnier PRI was just better at it and but it the door was opened up by Lenny it didn't exist before Lenny yeah so Lenny comes along the 50s and you know he's getting arrested all the time in the 60s like he was getting arrested well remember that whole thing where he would just go on and read his court transcripts yeah that was the end that must have been really out there I mean I watched the videos of that I watched you seen actual actual I bought it I bought a a VHS tape that was uh Lenny Bruce on stage I forget what place it was I think it was somewhere in San Francisco and he was just talking he was reading his court transcripts and talking about the case and someone in the audience is go we want dirty Lenny and he's like come man man it's not about that man it's it's about you got to understand what what what they're doing here man like any would go into the go back into the court case but it wasn't funny at all it was just him on stage for a long time just talking about his court cases but you have to the the thing about comedy is a lot of Comedy like even from the 80s it doesn't hold up it doesn't mean that it wasn't funny at the time it just means the concepts and the culture has shifted so much and they become so commonplace that it's not shocking or funny anymore but it was maybe in the 70s or maybe in the 80s and much more so with Lenny Bruce because you go back and listen to his stuff and people are dying laughing and you don't even find it funny like it doesn't even make you Chu it's hard to laugh at Lenny Bruce's stuff but it's because we can't put ourselves in the context of being alive watching this guy perform in 1962 see red fox to me is still funny though still funny but like his stuff holds yes his stuff holds moms may even yep some people some people still hold up you know um Robin Harris still holds up there's some some old school comedians like from the' 70s and the ' 80s that are just still like just you could tell there were Eddie Murphy he was special he was like a special talent like his that's still holds up today but some of the stuff doesn't um and then I think like the next big shift the big change was Kennison Kennison was a giant change in did you know Ken no I saw him live a few times I was going to say I think age wise it probably does yeah no I was about 21 when I saw him live I saw him live once when I was 19 when I was a security guard at greatwoods uh Center for the Performing Arts uh in Mansfield Massachusetts so uh I got to see him live there and then I got to see him live at some I think it was like some weird place in the middle of nowhere and it was like half empty and it was this was like 88 889 so by ' 89 he was kind of falling off cuz he had just done so much drugs and partied so hard that he was fucking huge in like 86 and and then by the time 888 came around the material kind of dropped off and then by the time I saw him was like 89 or 90 it wasn't so good anymore and then he died in like did he di like 92 I think he died in ' 92 car crash yeah drunk driver ironically because he had jokes about drunk driving um but he just I was always hoping he was going to come out with a new album and it would be he would be back you know he'd be back to the kennes in of ' 86 but just the party and the Coke and the women and the fucking no time to write his brother wrote about it there's a great book called uh Brother Sam okay by his brother Bill his bill wrote Bill wrote about the childhood about him getting hit by a car and becoming this Maniac he's like the victim of a head injury oh okay and that's what turned him into that fucking Maniac the childhood preaching is also part of the childhood preaching Tent Revival preaching and he brought that kind of energy to Comedy you know he was a different thing I remember the first time I saw him like oh wow that's comedy too like this is crazy I remember like thinking like well this is a completely different thing I never thought this was standup comedy this guy yeah he felt he it was like to me at the time it was like he was the rock and roll equivalent of Comedy or something yes and they didn't Guns and Roses take him on tour or something there was some I seem to remember like something something like that took him on tour I think Bon Joy too I think he was hanging out with those guys too he was just I think Bon Joi was one of in one of his because he had a music video called wild thing he he Wasing yeah he's kind of trying to be a rock star for a while but it's a quick Fall From Grace man because in ' 86 he's one of the best Comics that's ever walked the face of the Earth and by ' 89 he's like a caricature of the guy he was three years ago yeah and I think it's just it's really hard to maintain especially in the 80s when no one was famous like how many famous comedians were there there were like five 10 at the most now there's hundreds but back then like nobody was famous it was all about getting on Carson that was that was the thing right it was about getting HBO special that was the big thing Carson was big in the 80s but for a guy like Kennison even though he got on Letterman and he had one of the most brilliant sets ever on his Letterman set's fantastic we played it on the show Once it's really good but I think with Kennison it was really the HBO special it was Rodney's um Rodney Dangerfield's young comedian special first and people got to see him on that and then he did his own hour special you're right cuz when Eddie Murphy did his HBO special that was when he just like delious had that that like leather suit y i remember High School everybody was like it was all I've been looking at you and I know you've been looking at me yeah he was uh yeah I mean it's like there was only a few back then though you know and then dice came along and dice had a completely different element to it because people wanted to repeat the lines what's in the bowl bitch oh the whole crowd would go crazy it was like they it was rock and roll like they sang along you know shot through the heart it was like it was like rock and roll like everybody was singing along You Give Love a Bad Name They the crowd wanted to say that and the crowd wanted to say little boy blue oh he needed the money oh I tried to talk my wife into seeing if we could hire dice to do our wedding she wasn't having it who knows what he would have done my the vision I had my wife wanted to do kind of an Afterparty of the wedding we had it at my house so the idea was you know when when half the crowd bangs off because it's been a long day there still be a crowd that want to hang out and just party and then dice shows up and then dice shows up and then and then takes them goes puts the death ray on me right she just was not having it we used to call we used to say dice had two dices but my favorite dice was mean dice cuz mean dice would like find a guy in the audience he knew who could take it who couldn't who's smiling and laughing along he'd be like look at you and just start tearing this fucking poor fool apart H fun in back then the beautiful thing was The Comedy Store had no audience so he could go on unannounced he would show up at like you know midnight on a fucking Monday night or something like that and just torture people for fun just for fun he was only fucking around he was I'm having Bill ber PTSD cuz that the feeling when they put death r on you did you it really bothered you no it didn't bother me it's just I I it's uncomfortable well I I'm not I'm not going what do they always say don't don't bring a knife to a gunfight right like what am I gonna say you know what I mean what was he why was he picking on you I think CU he was uncomfortable about the whole setup because at the end of the day it's my fault I'm the one who said something in public right so at the end of the day I do bear the responsibility for initiating this Insanity it's taken a life of its own because I I mean walk through public now and people are like hey it's Bill Burr's brother so he's got to be getting it the other way that's hilarious you're the brother of that that that weirdo from the pumpkins you know like I you know I don't know we were talking about the other night at the club in the green room and we were convinced it was a bit that you guys were doing together we were convinced well no one disagreed every no one was like I think it's real most people were like n I think they were fucking around I think they it seemed like they made an agreement it's it's it's it's somewhere between a bit and reality and I think that's where it gets confusing and that's why I would use the word meta there's this moment if you watch it back where howwi he splits and just leaves me and Bill alone and and and how he's uh you know how he has a band that plays when he does a show so so the the gentleman who runs the band starts playing a really sad piano and Bill just starts riffing it's just me and him in this room alone I mean I don't know Bill at all and he's and he starts talking about our shared dad and it gets really weird because on some level it's like it's possible right even if it's 1% it's not a zero right so that's where it gets kind of that's why I say meta it's like you're you're you're you're looking down a Hall of Mirrors and you start almost playing with your mind you're thinking like well could it could be possible it's also the two of you guys doing this publicly is very pro wrestling which is what you love there's something about I I I I I brought a wrestler with me today who runs the promotions for the NWA uh but you know what I'm saying it's like there's something about it it's like is this kayfabe you know is this real is this a shoot or is this a work like what is this well Tommy you know Tommy Dreamer I know the name Tommy Dreamer famous ECW wrestler went on to work for WWE and now works for TNA um Tommy's the classic salty veteran you know seen it all done it all you know been split in half and the whole thing so nothing Tommy has seen and and you know Tommy will say something like uh it's all a work it's all a work like basically it's the cynical view that everything you see in the world is is fake well if you're a the president is fake the the the the the news is fake it's all the work so once you go there cynically it's hard to back out of that yeah so I like the disc the artist in me likes the discomfort yes that's what I'm getting at yeah I really do like the discomfort I remember watching Andy Kaufman on Satur Night Live Circa 78 or whatever and it's that idea that you can you can create a a a vibration in the room between what's expected and where you're willing to go yeah um I have this one friend who was a performance artist and she would do stuff like when she was in college she would just walk in the cafeteria and take off all her clothes and she would stick a camera in the corner and just film people's reaction and it was interesting to watch because one guy would just keep eating his food and and no sell it like I'm just going to eat my salad and just pretend this isn't happening like every human being goes in a different direction with the weirdness right so um as an artist you know on a stage you know there is this kind of uh crazy power that you have because depending on what comes out of your mouth next or what you do can affect thousands of people and then obviously through a digital medium even more so there's something about flirting with the the uh the uncomfortable but the re what makes it uncomfortable is there's always it always has a foundation of Truth you know what I'm saying yes I do know what you're saying yeah if it didn't have a foundation of Truth it would just be silly right right right the discomfort comes from like oh I re there's something you're doing that I recognize in myself or I know somebody that's like this yeah well it makes it much more interesting if it's there's a 1% chance that it's true if I just think you guys are running a sketch it's kind of funny but if it might be true then it gets to that weird place where it's like this is UN okay so if I walked out of that room that day after after meeting bill for the first time and it was a 1% chance if now that I walk through life we're up into like the 10 percentile in the Public's mind yes 10% of the public is convinced we're brothers even if I sat there and told them no it's not true more now that's okay but that's what I'm saying after but that's why that's why it's like when you when you say it's a bit yeah it's a bit to the extent that you're with the idea yes do you know what I mean it would be like if I sat down and say you know I'm sure you remember the last time it was on your show but you know I met you when I was 12 and I told you this whole story about how I met you like Carrot Top in his show tells this whole story about meeting Gallagher when he's a kid have you ever heard that no Gallagher is is is kerat Toops hero sure and he even does like a thing at the end of his show and tribute to Gallagher he kind of does a watermelon bit or something like that but he tells this thing in the show about how meeting Gallagher when he was like 14 years old and Gallagher like actually gave him some advice that inspired him to be who he became so but I mean for all I know it's a bit right right right but he says it with such earnestness and it does have some it feels right but for all I know it's just another bit everything's a work that's what I'm saying so if I came here oh Joe I you know I met you when I was 12 you were at an airport you were so nice you signed an autograph you know there's a part of that would be like well it's like it's possible I mean you know what I mean it's I got a pretty good memory I'd be like what happened where were we I never I never been there but sorry I have this plague that I can't get rid but if you have that Tommy's perception that everything's work the the whole world gets really weird well I think we're there yeah we we definitely are when it comes to politics and the news I think our whole culture is been turned into like like where are we right like you know I that's why I started calling it like five seven years ago a posttruth era right I I mean we've all been in that situation where somebody in our Inner Circle will bring up something that we know from a factually presented basis isn't true uh I heard so and so did so and so and you go no that's not true let me show you the YouTube clip you know I mean this didn't happen or no so and so made a left not a right but because of what they've heard they they believe it and you can literally show them something and say no no look and they're like well that must be AI or edited it's like once once somebody becomes convinced of this culture it's really hard to unconvince them right and so from a performing point of view and somebody who's now also in in the podcasting sphere it's like it's like is it better to play into into what people want um like I I really appreciated in Bruce Springsteen's uh Broadway special when in the first five minutes of the thing he basically says I'm not really Bruce Springsteen have you ever seen it no it's really worth watching he in the first five it's when he did his long Broadway run you know about that he did this thing where it was like he would talk and then play songs no I didn't even know oh yeah it was huge it was he went on this massive Broadway run huh um and HBO did it and put it on as a special um but he literally in the first 5 minutes of talking and it's you know it's about 1,200 people night so it's a live audience and he says in the first five minutes by the way I'm not Bruce Springsteen like I'm I mean that's my name but the Bruce Springsteen you think he's like I don't know how to fix a car I've never been a factory in my life he he serious yeah now I knew that as a performer I could I knew that what I was watching wasn't real but people want him to play John Wayne so bad that he he puts his finger in there says okay you want me to be John Wayne I'll be John Wayne right but that's audience capture right yes but but now now we're in the business of it I mean there's obviously examples historical antecedence over the last hundred years of media where people would figure it out right Charlie Chaplain or something you know what I mean like they wanted him to be the Tramp so he became the Tramp right he wasn't that guy at all right he fed into it and obviously connected to Something Real in him but he wasn't really a tramp he was a complete Rich lothario well you really see it in the dictator that movie The Dictator where he has that insane speech I uniting the world yeah yeah well he was out andout socialist basically and a brilliant guy like which is really crazy when you think about how silly his character was his character was this like bumbling stumbling goof so that's what I'm saying what is more what is more valuable what the public wants from you or what is true in the in the entertainment World we're used to it right yeah like you could play Joe Rogan the comedian at the drop of a hat because you've done it and Joe Rogan the UFC announcer you know just I'm not saying it's not who you are but it's it's an extenuation we say in wrestling you turn the volume up to 11 right it's still Joe Rogan I don't see as being disingenuous I can't I can't even think of one time I've ever seen you in any media where I thought that he's not playing he's not Joe Rogan you know what I'm saying right I've done it I've played other people so what I'm trying to say is now we're in this thing where like everybody's doing it I mean everybody we've all looked at some girl on the internet and said that's not how she really looks and you got to go through the Instagram and like you find the real picture right like everybody's kind of become comfortable with like a filter over everything so that's what I mean we're in a post-truth world where the impression is becoming more valuable than the reality that's really I think unprecedented yeah I think so too but I also think that authenticity is more valuable now than ever before because it's it's hard to find well that would be my argument for why my band has risen back up because we're one of the only bands left that sort of represents some ideal that's long abandoned right right right you're not a corporate creation no we never were right and we were and there's so many of them now you feel like you know like you ever seen uh kennison's bit about the monkeys the the band The Monkeys yeah I don't give me the well it's a bit about Manson it was uh and then you know he he does this bit about the monkeys about they weren't a real fucking band like cuz you know they they were pieced together by a corporation the the monkeys like one of which were great the monkeys are great I'm a Believer they have some great songs but they were kind of a one of the first corporate Creations but I actually on my podcast recently uh interviewed um Mickey Dolan oh wow and we talk a lot about this very subject it hasn't aired yet but but um he was less interested in the discussion than I was because my argument would be is that the monkeys are actually the template that came our whole lives the monkeys were dismissed as as as an anachronistic thing that went against the Integrity of The Beatles right but if you actually look now beatles versus monkeys the monkeys are more accurate of what came Than the Beatles In what way because authenticity is less and less and less important those who establish authenticity and I would include myself amongst that and I would include you in that they're very valuable but you also know because of your your public things that have gone on you've had to stand there and take a lot of shit because just even speaking your own truth is inconvenient in a posttruth world yeah right so so it's actually more uh politically expedient to to create a character that can navigate this new world and by the way change on a dime right does it make sense the way I'm no it does make sense so so my argument would be from a rock and roll historical point of view is that the monkeys are actually more relevant now in a particular way the Beatles are this preeminent band that's not the argument I'm making I'm saying is the model of the monkeys which was always held up as for for a form of mockery right see this is what you get when you make plastic music no no we live in the age of plastic music now right the monkeys are the are the for are the grandfathers of this thing right it wouldn't even be shocking today if the corporation put together a band what no one would dismiss the band because a bunch of people they cast it together with a bunch of good musicians and created a band no I mean I I we used to want Aerosmith we used to want Steven Tyler and Joe Perry young coming up together playing music that's what we used to want used to want the Beatles they all got together they formed the band they played in hurg until they tightened it up I used to work with the musician and I was I was in therapy at the time and I was having a lot of problems with the musician and the musician was from a wealthy family but he always he didn't bathe and he wore junky clothes he wanted people to believe he was somebody that he wasn't right you know I was actually from a poorish family he was from a rich family pretending to be poor yeah and my therapist had the Great Line about him he said he looks like a junkie smells like a junkie but he doesn't have the guts to be a junkie so if you can if in this culture you can pick up anything you want and adapt it without the downside of actually becoming it yeah well you can see why so many people without courage or chops it puts them in a game it puts them in this social Miu that that we all sort of have to navigate so now we're into this place where we're we're talking to a lot of people who believe that they're they're they're furry number 463 because that's all that's all their status comes from their digital online group MH yeah you know I'm I'm 57 I got two kids another one on the way I I work with animal Charities and I have a tea house and a wrestling company and I'm still fighting at 57 with people who want me to be this guy that they believe I I am from 30 years ago right and no amount of empirical evidence will change their minds right they're upset with you because you're connected to something that's different than what they want you to be connected to like they don't care what you really are they don't want you to like pro wrestling Sam kennison's second action should have been get sober get straight and go on another hellacious run yeah I suspect Sam was very mentally ill I never met him but I I think one of the reasons why he was self medicating so hard was probably that head injury that he got when he was a young kid probably really fucked him up because I know quite a few people with some pretty significant head injuries and they're wild and impulsive and aggressive and they do crazy things like some of them like they just go off on Benders they disappear for days like I think it's common with people with severe CTS uh CTE because I'm on the board I'm on honorary on the board of the concussion Legacy Foundation which I'm sure you know has some tie to UFC too because you know Chris nowinsky who runs it is my friend um one of the main things that happens with people who start to get CTE early in life is lack of impulse control yeah so suddenly you have a 40-year-old retired professional athlete who's faster and stronger than 99 % of the population who can't control his temper right right right that's what makes that situation so frightening for the families because they lose the ability to kind of keep it all rained in right right that happens a lot with Fighters football players I'm sure it happens with pro wrestlers probably happens with a lot of it's getting better I think with wrestling the awareness is helping um in our in our organization we forbid head shots that's good you know the classic chair to the head there's none of that my world good good you don't need it well for what yeah the pain of watching people deteriorate is so awful the the pain in their eyes where they just can't navigate life anymore and they're every day they have a fucking headache and they just in hell and they just want to kill themselves they just can't take it anymore and it it gets to a certain point where it sort of accumulates over time where it doesn't get better it gets worse well I think ALS and I'm not speaking from experiences but I've heard the stories you take people who are held up as as as almost like masculine ideals mhm that fall isn't just the fall physic it's the fall of like I'm not the person I'm not the hero that you've made me out to be anymore I'm I'm broken right and I I there's nothing I can do to put the pieces back together that's a very hard journey for Championship Fighters when they are the fucking man they're on top of the world and then they have to just integrate society and be one of us and they used to be the do and then they go to the fights they sit there with a punch and a you know a little bit of a belly sit there watch people doing what they used to do and they they don't know how to make a living outside of fighting they don't know what to do it's very few of them figure out how to transition into some other stage of Life the thing about Athletics is by the time you're 40 you're essentially done unless you're a rare Tom Brady type character Randy Coture who can compete into their 40s yeah Bernard Hopkins great example but at a certain point in time it's over and you have to know when it's over and then what you put all your eggs in this one basket where to be a championship fighter like a lenx Lewis or Vander holy field you have to be all in you can't have like a side gig and a blues band there's no room for you writing books there's no room for you uh you know fucking selling things on Etsy like well that's it's it's I know this is a leap of of discussion but that's one of the discussions that's going on internally in my band is I'm 57 and one guy's 56 and one guy's think 61 you know it's like at what point do you start to dial the thing down my brain is wired I'm going to go until I run into a brick wall right and they're more like well things are pretty good you know I mean like do we have to keep throwing ourselves into the M the public you know my argument is like it'd be like going into a UFC fight and not fighting to win right right fighting not to lose right that seems to me far more dangerous and that's kind of my argument is it's like in order to be in the Arts you've got to it's p Mel all all Allin yeah all in or all out that's the only gear I know yeah there's the thing that happens to band when they get to a point where they never make any new music right and they just Tour on the old music you're you're you're you're touching on on the on the nerve of my life yeah how do you navigate that I just keep working I refuse that's it in my case back to my daddy for a second I watched my dad play songs he didn't want to play I watched him doing drug deals rather than make money from music I watched him give up on his talent his dream all of it I watched it destroy my father and then if you want to even go further in a kind of a mythical way my success destroyed him again oo so if you've watched that well I then I was lucky enough to have kids late late in life my first kid came when I was 48 and we're about to have one again 57 once my kid came I was like this kid is not going to look at me how I looked at my father like should have would have could have yeah so I had to get myself up off the couch and like get serious again and again that's that mentality that killer mentality like I can still go I'm going to go so until somebody stops me I'm going to go well that's what got you to the dance right well even doing the podcast is you know you know it's just it looks easy to just sit and talk but it requires prep and and mental focus and it's it's a lot harder than I would have thought you know um and you know I got money I make it home I I like being in the game I like the hustle I like having to learn things I like having to what do you enjoy about podcasting and why did you decide to get into it um the quick story was I I did a I did a podcast based on an album that we put out that was 33 songs and I did it for iHeart radio and that they were fine and everything but when it all finished I started to kind of enjoy it a bit and I poked around as you do to see if anybody was interested and it was it was like crickets nobody gave a shit about me being a podcaster like at all and if any kind of response came back and be like well if you want to tell stories about the '90s and get other '90s artists on to talk about the '90s we'd be cool with that but other than that we have no use for you so I just thought okay not for me not not meant to be and then I did Club random with Bill Maher and as soon as I was done with the episode and shaking everybody's hands they said Bill starting a podcast Network would you be interested in doing this and I said only if I can do whatever I want to do and they said tell us what it is and I pitched them the idea that is the show called Magnificent others now I said I want to talk to whoever I want to talk to about whatever I want to talk about but here's the reason and the reason to to the heart of your question is I feel there's a lot of people in this culture that don't get celebrated in the way that I would celebrate them because our we because we we become so skewed with influencers and people who are famous that don't do shit yeah and I think there's a lot of value in American culture that can be celebrated So you you're talking about like say a retired fighter or something there's a lot we can learn from a retired fighter yeah you know you have a gun armor out here you know what I mean to me a retired fighter is like you think I don't want to sit down with a retired shun and ask them about what it's like to be in there alone right uh recently interviewed Steve VI great guitar player and I for some reason I had this idea of of uh you know like the classic Sergio Leon two guys at the end of the street with the gun yeah so I said to Steve V who do you fear at the end of like who's the faster gun you know I mean that's his right not I'm projecting but I'm saying we all have that moment like who do we not want to be in the octagon with is it Eddie Van Halen who was it for me or or for him Stevi he didn't he didn't want to say really well I think he's a top guy so right right right why would you want to create heat where there's no need to create heat I he's he's at an elite level right I'll tell you what I wouldn't want to be at the end of the street with him Steve I at the other end of the street or inve those guys are like insane shreders I mean yeah I mean I'm an amateur you know compared to those guys so I wouldn't want the W there's something about that kind of shredding too that's just like so stunning freakish yeah I mean you do you still train MMA or I I I still do martial arts yeah so I don't Spar though I don't get hit in the head anymore but but there's got to be those times where you see a fighter that just they just get it yeah and it looks easy for them and you're like how is that autism okay God bless but I'm saying that's the way it is for me with other musicians sometimes right I look at a guy like Steve V or Edy Van Halen ring like how do you do that right like what it must have been like when Hendrick burst onto the scene my dad had a story actually yeah he's uh he was playing a club in Wisconsin he never heard of jimmi Hendrick and Jimmy Hendricks was playing the night before they were playing the same Club so one of his boys said why don't we go up watch this new guy jimmi Hendricks we'll hang out we'll play the gig the next night we'll drive back to Chicago so imagine my dad's in a club in Wisconsin with like a thousand people in in 1966 or 67 and out watchs Jamie Hendrick wow my dad said he'd never even heard his music so it split his mind and he said it was so shocking the way he played and how masterful he was at it he said when he got on stage the next night he felt like he couldn't play the guitar at all wow it was like it was like an alien instrument that's and Clapton talks about it other yeah like Jimmy hunri blew Clapton's mind and whatever when Roy Albert Hall whatever it was he was like oh my God what the hell is happening yeah was Bag of Nails or something was called he's like what am I doing and this is when people were spray painting on the walls in in London clapped in his God and here comes here shows up this guy who was on the chitlin circuit is what they used to call playing for Little Richard and and the isy brothers he he was just in the backup band yeah and he shows up in England Chaz Chandler the basis from the animals goes this guy could be a star gets him a record deal he shows up in England and next thing you know he's like Hey Joe is a number one hit and he's he's on TV and it's like wow I mean imagine that wow so yeah there are those people that's like it's so shocking Van Halen was the same way you I got to interview him once and sit in his studio for four hours he would just play the guitar and you'd just be like I don't understand how this is possible you're doing inhuman things and I know I know how to do what you do yeah and I can't even come close to doing what you're doing shocking is it's always interesting too that people have a specific sound like you can hear them and you know who's playing the guitar like St gravon had a sound like you could hear him like when he was doing Voodoo Child you're like oh that's a Stevie version like he played Music guitar no so the one thing I'll tell you guitar player to non- guitar player is the thing you learned about the great guitar players it's it's it's it's all in their hands everybody focuses on what amp what guitar the gear it's it's somehow it's the way they they hit the strings I couldn't even explain it to you they have a different we call it attack I have no idea Steve R ju for example he played his strings purposely high he made it harder to play the guitar really and still played at that level now there's a belief with certain guitar players that the higher you put the strings the more you have to dig out the notes and then so it becomes more emotive so imagine he's doing it at that level even hard he's making it harder to do what he's doing and he's doing it at that level wow unbelievable cre incredible talent I mean shocking again shocking it's like where does that come from just has it we have um photo of him in the tunnel leading up to the stage in my comedy club of him on stage at that club in 1980 oh the same place yeah I think it's 88 or 86 some somewhere in the 80s he's on that maybe it's 83 but early in the sometime in the 80s and it's like Steve Rayvon on stage at that club it's wild it's just wild to think that he was in this room you know cuz a where he's from and think about this cuz he talked about it there was a point in his life where he was dropping rocks of coke I think in whiskey and drinking it and rot in his stomach out and he got sober like in the last year so his life and he played even better right if you listen to the recordings that he made live particularly in the last year or so of his life he's playing even better so that's what I say about Sam Kennison imagine if he he cleaned was able to make that left and I like I said though I think Sam was dealing with something I think his demons were internal the Steve Ray vongh thing um what's fascinating to me is a well first of all he's the only guy that can play Voodoo Child other than Hendrick like if if you're like at some upstart and you want to release Voodoo Child today like Jesus Christ like what are you doing you're trading you're trading on hollowed ground you know like maybe you can do All Along the Watchtower because that was actually a Dylan song right maybe but you know why he you know this is my opinion but you know why he he plays voodo Char so well why because he had studied the same guys that Hendrick had studyed so he's not imitating Hendrick he's coming from the same Wellspring of information like who are the guys Albert King oh uh BB King Albert King uh you know it's it's Muddy Waters it's understanding the way those guys played so he's not imitating jimmi Hendricks he's playing from the same spot have you ever heard of Johnny Thunder you mean talking about from the New York Dolls no Johnny Thunder was an artist in the 1960s and he put out a song called I'm Alive in I think it was 1969 and it was also covered by another band uh but his version is fucking insane it's so good you can't believe he didn't make it can I play it for you is the cover right that's right his version is the cover what was the other version of it Tommy J and the shawnell Tommy James and the Shawn Dells um their version but okay Johnny Thunder put the he on it's another new commercial I've heard recently to yeah well we started talking about it like a year or so ago my friend Brian Simpson played it for me and uh he goes you're going to fucking love this and he goes this is a one- hit wonder from 1969 never heard of I usually know all this stck Fant F right yeah I don't I don't know where he's from I can't even identify where he's from by the the fucking song is fantastic it's so good it just it stuns you because you hear something like that and you go how did he not make it what hope is there imagine if you were around in 1969 you see that guy up at the whiskey of Goog go he gets on stage and plays that song you're like holy shit but but to be fair I I I saw those people in the 80s and I saw those people in the 90s and I I I couldn't imagine that they weren't going to make it and they didn't yeah isn't that weird and that was part of the vibe that my father put on me which was like well how the hell did you get out right of course well the fucking resentment must have been astounding you know when you're you know trying and kind of half assing it and your son comes along and all a sudden he's doing Arenas you're like what the fuck this interview from uh Rolling Stone by Bob Dylan literally almost has what you guys just quoted like never heard of it I can't believe it right we talked about this yeah Bob what year was this 1969 yeah ain't that crazy that's right we talked about this Bob Dylan so he discovered it and was asking Yan winner if he'd heard of it that's so crazy even Bob Dylan couldn't make it huge so 1968 okay yeah Bob on the radio wow and then disappeared that's fucking incredible man incredible cuz you feel like a guy who make a song that's that good oh my God all you need is good songwriters and that guy's going to be huge there's a fucking billion dollars in there waiting for you dig it out but that's that's kind of what I was saying before is like it's it's it's a curious thing why certain people make it and certain people don't my father before he passed away he told me you had the one thing that I didn't have which was the ambition like he wanted it he said I didn't really want it I just wanted it to come come to me well also I think if if you're involved in a life of crime like that a lot of cocaine and F first of all there's a lot of Bad Karma that you have but also it's like you're you're too distracted like you're too in that life you're never going to really be able to go all in on music as an artist so you're never going to really be able to reach your full potential right yeah that's that's kind of that's what he was saying he was admitting to me that he had he had made some sort of internal decision that that he didn't want to do whatever he had to do to do it he made excuses involving the mob he did say that back then and it is a known thing in Chicago that in order to be successful in Chicago you had to basically sign contracts with the mob right you know there's always been rumors about the band Chicago that there were mob ties with their uh with their world I'm sure there was a lot of that going on I mean wasn't that the whole Hendrick thing you you ever know that conspiracy yeah I've read about that that's that that gets into other types of complications and I'm not I don't have a an opinion on it it's just it's like saying there's no way to separate the two things at the time like anybody back then you know any clubs at the time particularly in Chicago they were all mob right connected and Los Angeles as well sure so if you were a comedian or you know what I mean an MC or whatever you were doing like here's Lola the dancer you know you were connected there was a w guy standing there and everybody knew they were because that's how they did did their business because if you didn't like what Johnny Rock was doing you were going to get in trouble and you didn't want to get in trouble and and I went to school with a bunch of the mob Wise Guys kids and grandkids I worked at a mob Club in Connecticut I worked I did stand up and another one uh in Long Island there was where the guys were connected by the mob and in in Boston as well in Boston Nick's comedy stop they would offer to pay you in cocaine or money we played a club on Long Island once where um the crowd was moshing and uh in the middle of the forest song guy on the side of the stage that worked for me was waving like stop playing in the middle of the song and I fucking stop playing got a thousand people out in front of me and and he kind of did one of these and there were two two Wise Guys with standing there with suits on kind of like you're going to get in trouble with these guys if you don't stop and I said I don't give a fuck and I kept going so they waited one more song and then they came out between songs on stage with their backs to the audience and they pulled their coats open and showed me a gun and said you better calm the fuck down whoa because of washing yeah because it was one of we used to call them brass and fern bars you know like the The Brass Bar and the ferns right right right you know that bar right yeah we've all been there and we were playing one of those places for some reason and the crowd was going AP shit they were bouncing off the wall so they were blaming us for the reaction of the crowd so they wanted us to bring the crowd down but how do you bring the crowd down so they L they literally showed me a gun and said you better calm the fuck down so what did you do I just kept going were they going to kill me on stage Jesus Christ what happened when you got off stage they weren't gone really I I I mean I there might have been a problem if somebody had done some real damage or something but I there was no problem but they they definitely threatened me on stage how do they not know about this is me like 180 lbs in like long hair and you know bad attitude that's hilarious I don't think they'd ever seen anything like Ming you know this is like' 92 this is very very new phenomenon to to the to the outside world but mhing was going on before that right oh yeah but it's only in the underground clubs is what I'm saying it's like that's what I'm saying you're in a you're in a Wise Guys Club on Long Island with brass rails and Ferns and I dated a girl in the 80s who went to see the cre the the cramps and came home with a concussion well poison from the MH bit I remember poison ivy she was the guitar player for the cramps oh right so great yeah bad music for bad people did you did you ever kind of cter the alternative scene when you were a kid not really no just not not for you the freaks um I didn't go to very many I mean I went to a few concerts when I was a kid but not a it like I went to Jay gu's Band I saw George Thorogood not exactly alternative there yeah no I didn't I never really saw a lot and then once I started really getting into comedy I didn't really go to see anybody perform I was mostly just performing myself so I never got to see anybody and I didn't really become friends with band people until I moved to Hollywood and you know then like in the late 90s and 2000s I met a bunch of band people and it was always weird you know hanging out with them was always odd it's was like oh that's that guy from that band yeah it's a lot of a lot of um like what do you call it when the brain when the brains don't uh connect the brain hemispheres bipolar a lot of bipolarity in in in music musicians oh particularly high levels I my theory is is the reason they become musicians is they overdevelop one side of their brain oh you know this I you know you probably get on somebody who's knows what they're talking about but the idea is that if People's their brain hemis and that's why a lot of musicians do Coke is it helps the polarities work it helps the brain communicate left to right really oh yeah it's a known thing that coke really helps that if you have that bipolarity huh do is that a medication for people that are bipolar do they give them Aderall or anything like that is I don't know I mean I've worked with people are bipolar and they've talked about their medications and stuff you know huh um and it's still kind of an inexact science bipolarity it's crazy to think that coke helps fix some things I think it helps the I think it helps the what I've heard is it helps the brain Communications anybody I've known that's bipolar as a musician that did Coke told me they felt normal it's the first time in their life they felt normal that their brain worked normally what a terrible thing yeah it doesn't work right imagine if that's the thing that keeps you together it's cocaine um I wonder if what Coco leaves would do because there's a lot of people like the high altitude herting populations and you know like people in Peru they chew cocoa leaves just for energy and apparently it's a very different thing like the chewing of the cocoa leaves or you can get tea coca tea yeah I was just in South America I've had that m d coca yeah like get a little bit of a clarity but the chewing of the leaves is like it's so uh normal for them and it's illegal over here yeah but but back to the theory the idea is if you have one side of your brain overdevelop it makes you good at something that you wouldn't necessarily be good at and then bad at life yeah probably you so you need a Handler like Elvis so if you're if you're meeting a successful musician they're the they're the the graduating class of the bipolarity oh okay that makes sense so there's some functional level of of acum that makes sense that makes sense that's why when through the years as I've heard people give rumor to any number of famous rock stars it's like I recognize all the behaviors they most people treat it like oh can you believe so and so did this and made this erratic decision it's like no that's that's a musician that's how that's how most of their brains work I don't know what it is and maybe there's a comedic uh parallel but it just strikes me that the reason there's such consistent bad behavior with musicians is because they their brains don't work right and I'm sure somebody's going to get mad at me for saying that but I I mean it's a compliment they it makes them good at something that they maybe wouldn't necessarily be good at and maybe I I don't know I've never been tested I don't think I'm bipolar but yeah I probably I would imagine that a lot of like motivational speakers would not be awesome band members you know what I mean like people who are completely dialed in with their life Tony Robbins my new bass player you know they get up in the morning and they do their exercise and yoga and they eat well they stare at the Sun as it rises and they got their fucking whole life dialed in they probably wouldn't be the best band members well especially like Elite there's no there's no good band members that's the problem well how do you guys St how did you keep it together for all these years like what's the key to a har that's that's the thing I mean we broke up in 2000 and then the German I brought the band back in 2007 and it only lasted two years and then I soldiered on alone as the only original member from 2009 to 2015 and then the drummer came back and then the guitar player who I didn't talk to for 16 17 years came back and Jesus 2018 so we've been an intact 34 unit since 2018 how come you guys didn't talk for so long uh it's real heat it real heat yeah that sucks no it's all it's all resolved now I mean it's all good I mean I mean I think if you don't talk to somebody for 16 17 years there's a beef there that you know what I mean it lasts a real one but it's interesting to me how um people can manage like that it's always like as Comics we always look at band members is going imagine if all of your fucking success depended on this guy showing up that guy showing up this guy's girlfriend not getting in the way this guy's fucking Uncle not trying to manage you guys like you have all these fucking people and you're trying to put together songs and you're trying to like get out come on we got a tour I don't want to tour my mom needs me to help her with the fucking business and what are you talking about man we're in a band we got a we have a record deal I'm noding my head cuz this is every this is my life experience for 35 years we we as Comics we always talk about thank God we're like a one man show thank God all we need is other Comics to work with us the problem with the band is is the band members have no idea why it works we're we're we're we're clueless as to the mystery of why people are attracted to us as a unit we we we can certainly conceptualize like I write good songs and I play good guitar but there's something about bands that creates a kind of a magical Pete towns in referred to it as a gang a gang that you want to be in that's what makes is attractive to people that was his opinion I don't totally I don't disagree it's there's something that goes on in those relationships that's kinetic enough that it's it sustains past whether or not you have a good song right or two right yeah it's a all the pieces make the puzzle together it's not one piece as an individual it's all of them together make lead Zeppelin yes all together so if you're lucky and and in this new world you know you got the stones playing into their 80s so the economy of music has changed where it's like you're in an elongated state of success it's just totally unprecedented by the way there's no there's no what's going on with rock bands in their 50s and Beyond is there's no prior parallel in a 100 plus years of recorded music there's not even one instance you can point to and say it worked that way then so we're all in Uncharted Territory and there's nobody that can even really advise you there's always the material thing of like well you're going to make a lot of money and you know you got this IP and the ban and but it's like the actual sort of the nuts and bolts of how to hang together so for us it's been really it's the I call it the family of the band there's some sort of Pride that's emerged with like we've all survived our relationships are intact enough for us to get on a stage and somehow it benefits our families individually so it's allowed us a sort of Pride you know that it's because it's less about our relationship and more about our relationship with our families that's allowed us to have a sweetness between the three of us that we didn't have When We Were Young oh that's cool well also probably just growing up and being more mature and appreciative you're you're really going out on a limb there with the growing up shit that's your a little bit of gratitude Perpetual adolescence over here well that is part of the fun though actually have to really you know it's funny even when I say something like this there's already some guy getting ready to go on Reddit but there is a day you wake up and you look in the mirror you're like I'm a rock star this is fucking cool yeah and and and there's another day that you wake up and go you know I don't have to get off this Rockstar train if I don't want to well look at the stones I saw the stones at Kota at the Circuit of Americas here in Austin a couple years ago it was fucking insane it's insane I I I was almost like having an out-of- Body Experience because you you can't believe you're really seeing Mick Jagger like when he's out there dancing I swear to God I felt like I was on a drug I was like what my friend Bobby and I were hang he he's the one he owns that place Circuit of the Americas and I was standing next to him like I can't believe they're really here like there's certain people that you just get weirded out by being like Bill Mur was here the other day yeah and I even told him I'm like I'm weirded out I'm weirded out that you're here like it's just there's a lot of people that I don't fre I mean I've met a lot of people I don't freak out about too many of them but Bill Murray I freaked out about but seeing Mick Jagger Just I didn't even get to meet him but seeing him on the stage like this is nuts that's really MC Jagger yeah well the the the mythical part see in in in his case the mythical part of MC Jagger and Keith Richard is integrated they they they become the Avatar right they are the living example of where it actually works my argument is against those people where it doesn't work you know Larry 465 on the internet who thinks he's Lord of like you know D and D or something you know I mean that's where I get kind of like what is that I get the other thing you know because you know whether it's a you know what do you mean by Larry not I'm joking about the guy in the internet who his entire status is based on being in a subculture and a in achieving some status within the subculture which doesn't really apply into the outside world oh like a Reddit Forum or something yeah whatever whatever it is mck Jagger walks into a stadium full of people they're there to see Mick Jagger and Keith Richards and Ronnie Wood right even though they're 80 and you who has been around everybody goes holy shit there it is yeah just the fact that he was alive okay but but it's the myth made real yes have you ever watched those YouTube videos like what was Caesar really like you know what I mean that type of stuff like what was it like to live in those times cuz there's the myth and then there's the reality and then sometimes if you learn about the reality you're like wow that guy was really a badass or she was really a badass because it's the thing is real the mythology is real it's like right it has truth or or resonance in it it's all this other culture that's risen up where we're supposed to pay tribute and that's goes back to the podcast it's like we're paying tribute to people who haven't done shit right I want to pay I want to pay tribute to people who've actually done something yes well that's what you like about doing your podcast then you just like finding people that resonate with you that really like strike a chord uh I just the other day I I interviewed Susan Olson who was Cindy Brady okay The Brady Bunch wow okay The Brady Bunch is you know as far as the the original show I think has been over for 50 years right think so right yeah okay every interview you look up on YouTube on Susan Olsen it's like it's just getting her to regurgitate the same stories and she did the Brady bun when she was like 7 to 12 years old or something wow you know what I'm saying yeah you're Gilligan for life okay my thing is no you're not Gilligan for life so that's that's what and and I we had a great chat because I I think there's a lot to learn from somebody who went through a zeist moment at such a young age like how do you navigate past that what do you do with yourself like how do you pick yourself up off the ground how do you deal with typ casting how do you navigate the fact that as you walk through the airport you're not Susan Olsen you're Cindy Brady do people still recognize her oh yeah wow it well those Barbara Eden I Dream of Genie that was another one yeah people get locked into to who they are Al Bundy I'm still the rat in the cage guy I I I doal with that too you know yeah but it's such a good Jam it's such a good Jam that's a fucking great song thank you that's on the Green Room playlist that fucking song rules dude that was a good one oh my God all time class I didn't get it at the time I actually had to be talked into it really yeah we were putting out our double album it was this big pressure moment 95 and I wanted a different song to be the first song and the guy from the record company called who's now passed away his name was Phil Cordo lovely guy and he he literally did the thing on the phone kid it's a smash you got to trust me and I trusted him wow I thought he was crazy didn't you think that that's sometimes because you're too close to your own creation course yeah like you you're never going to get to see how your songs impacted other people the way it impacted them you know you're not going to feel that the way they feel it like hearing that song For the First Time completed they've never seen you rehearse it they don't know how you wrote it they don't know how you guys practiced it how you fucked around with the lyrics You Did different way they just get the first they get the full version of it done they're like holy shit and there it's it's kind of awful that you don't get to experience that like you created it yeah the only time I've been able to experience that is when I was really high oh wow like getting so high that I could hear it for the time as if it was somebody else singing oo what really tripped me out about doing a lot of drugs back in the day was I would hear messages in my music that I didn't even know I was putting in there and at some point I became conscious of my unconscious ability to put messages and sign sorry you looking at me like I'm crazy no no no it's fascinating so imagine I'll try to reset up the scenario okay you write a song you think it's about something you're sure of it in fact you would tell people sorry this horrible plague I got no worries you're convinced that the song that you've written is about your ex-girlfriend and then when you're super high you listen and you can you can hear yourself actually singing about something else so now you have a you have a conscious understanding of something you're unconscious is implanted in the in the art and once I became conscious of the process I became more aware of how to consciously plant messages in my music does that make sense yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you you just operated on layers you put stuff in there yes but I didn't know that I was doing it until I did a lot of drugs that there was this other voice at work this subliminal voice like can you give me example um the conscious mind wants to believe the song is about your ex-girlfriend but what it's really about is about being abandoned by your mother if you if if you came up to me and said what's that song about and I trust you and I go oh it's just about my ex I believed it I would believe it like 100% % and then I listen to it high on drugs and I'm like oh my God I'm singing about my mother and I'm weeping and I had no conscious mind when I wrote the song that was about my mother wow and then once I have that kind of Agape moment of like holy shit then I go back and listen to music sober and I can totally hear it and then where it gets really weird is people would come up to me and say that song that reminded me of my relationship with my mother thank you that healed like people would come up and respond to me on the unconscious recognition not what I thought I wrote the song about that blew my mind that there was this other person in their layer at work and I and I gained a lot more respect for for like I guess you would call it the shamanic aspects of art uh I don't know if you ever read cenatus but you know did you read castus maybe I did in high school I think yeah it was kind of a thing for Our Generation everybody kind of read cenatus yeah and it's still to this day debated about whether cenatus was a real thing saying it was a documentary it was true stories or made up and did Don Juan the the shaman was he a real person is there really a Don Juan there's a lot of debate even I think there's even been New York Times articles written about it right about whether catus this whole thing is a fraud and all this stuff and I think catus may even still be alive really um that might be one to look up sometime but um anyway I gained a lot more respect that that artists have the ability to communicate at subconscious levels that they're not even aware of I don't know if that resonates the way I'm explaining it but that's that that it moves something to me allowed me to be a better artist that's fasting and it also like you can never guess like what kind of an impact your especially if you're too close to it what kind of an impact your work is going to have on someone who's seeing it for the first time and if there's like multiple layers that you're operating on that you're not even totally aware of and then you put out this thing that has this like very complex layered message in it and it just makes people go oh my God that's like one of the ultimate expressions of art right like something that just it music does something very strange that no other art form does it it operates like a drug like music gives you more energy when you're on the treadmill like if a great song comes on you're working out you're like fuck yeah like you feel it you know yeah there's riffs there's guitar riffs I swear to God make you stronger like uh tool prison sex that song makes you just fucking ra you know there's like something to it it gives you energy it's like a drug there it's an audio drug it fires up your synapses in this very strange way the best explanation I ever heard that resonated with me was you know uh the entire universe is constructed on waves light everything has to do with waves so music is the closest thing to the foundational aspects of the universe sorry that's okay I know what you're saying yeah well that makes sense because it pen it penetrates the cellular right well people that you know go on these shamanic journeys the the iasa journeys they play these songs that accompany the iasa journey they're called ecaro and when you uh are they traditional iasa songs yes and they have like this weird beat to them you listen to them by themselves you're like I don't get it but if you listen to them under the influence you the the Psychedelic experience dances to those songs and it gets Guided by those songs and it's really wild like really wild like and then you go oh this is like a technology to interface with the Psychedelic experience it's not but but okay but you're hitting on exactly what I'm saying I think artists and I'll exclude myself from the discussion so I don't make somebody mad artists have a way of knowing how to do that without anybody teaching them right they just know what music beats chords Melodies lyrics to use to penetrate and and the successful artists think of it they do it at scale yeah well there's this thing that happens when someone's really in it where you feel it from them while they're performing and you just you just like get drawn into it like wow I remember the first time I saw Mr Jones and me first time I saw uh Cy crows play that song the way he was like dancing around in the Liv I'm like that guy is so free like I Want to Be Free like that you know I really remember thinking that cuz it was so real he was so in the moment while I was singing that song and I had Adam in here and I asked him about I'm like what what is that like you are fucking locked in man like I remember being a kid I was probably like 23 or something like that when that song came I was in my apartment in New York watching it going fuck watching on MTV going this guy's just so loose man he's so free and I remember thinking I want to be able to perform like that whatever I do I want to feel like how's that what's that zone that he's in well part of that is um you know you know a lot of shamanic work involves the breath so think a singer is is rhythmically breathing and rhythmically chanting so that's one thing that most people would not pick up on there's a ton of expiration of breath you know like what's the windhoff Wim Hoff you know that well I do that for two hours right I mean I'm totally asphyxiated the entire time it's not natural to scream your head off for two hours it just isn't do you have to get in shape to do it do you have to get your bu in shape I do I do I do to a certain extent yeah do you build up to like a concert performance like how you have to it to a certain extent yeah I don't know uh I don't know how to explain it like I If if you if like I'm off cycle right now so if you came to see me play an hour and a half show tomorrow I could do it but I probably couldn't talk the next day but if I do a week of rehearsals and prep up then I can so it's like a muscle like something yeah I don't understand I don't understand it it's almost like a trained fury like you learn to not go too far say blow your voice out you have to really know where the line is by the way when you're when you're dealing with a ton of adrenal like the the thing with Fighters comes to mind like they'll come in they'll gas in a minute cuz they're so jacked right sometimes you see a guy getting rain they're just like like and they gas in a minute and I I know how to see that because of watching wrestlers gas you know you you get you you learn the body language of somebody getting gassed you know they kind of start to lose their posture and little Goosey right they get loose okay same thing for for a singer I mean you can gas in the first 3 minutes and you're dead and you're dead what are you going to do yeah so you have to almost like have a controlled fury like imagine screaming at the top of your lungs but not totally at the top of your lungs like right 87% like there's the magical line well that's what fighting it's the same kind of thing you don't go 100% the Zen of that yeah some of the best fighters they'll they'll punch like 50 60% and that way they could put volume on you so I can't imagine being it in there some on the other side want to kill you and be able to be like I'm going to just going to work my way through these well you have to have serious experience to be able to manage the storm that way did you ever have to take vocal lessons to learn how to not blow your throat out I did yeah I I work with a lady it's a funny story I work with a lady at one point they hooked me up with somebody from the Opera oh perfect she and she came to my well no it's actually she was great but she came to my house and and she said oh you sing totally wrong and but here's how to sing right and you won't blow your voice out and it was all about the right posture and all this stuff and the first time I tried to do at a concert with 4,000 kids going nuts I tried to do what she taught me and it didn't work because I just I I was in the deep end of the pool and I I end up having to go back to all my old bad habits So eventually I found a woman who was used to working with rock singers and she explained to me a bunch of theories about I think her memory I think she said the human body has 11 folds of tissue in the throat and if and if rock singers don't warm up all that tissue that's how they damag their singing and she and she' also worked with Stephen Tyler and she said the thing about rock singers is you you guys sing wrong because that's the way you want to sound it's it's part of your gimmick you know right right I'm sure Stephen Tyler and myself we could sing like choir boys if we wanted to but that's not what attracts people to us it's the razor's Edge in The Voice or something so you have to learn how to warm up to sing like an idiot basically oh and that's the sound that people are attracted to with rock singers and even the gentleman you played before I mean he's totally abusing his voice that is not proper singing right right right right right and there's there's there there's physical techniques to create that sound like there's there's uh Axel Rose for example like you know he sings A a very particular way the way he he uses his throat in a particular way that makes it you would say that's the axle sound or whatever it's not natural but it's awesome when he does it it's kind of the thing yeah that has got to be really hard to maintain I saw them play in Athens Greece uh and they did a three-hour show like two years ago yeah at like how old is he 60 60 something I think ax was about 7 years older than me so yeah cuz I remember Welcome to the Jungle was huge when I was in high school or just out of high school yeah ' 89 88 89 was it okay so I graduated in 85 so it was like a couple years after high school Welcome to the Jungle I was like oh my God this song like I remember watching the the music video remember when he had that teased up hair back then hair yeah had the huge hair that was the poison hair era yeah yeah so singing like that is is is is it's it's it's wrong but that's what makes it right right well you can't say what's wrong or what's right it's just like what's sustainable trust me no one can tell you you're surrounded by a lot of people with a lot of opinions I I was told when I was very young that voice you sing with will never sell records ever and most people that don't like my music will often cite my voice as the reason they don't like my music but that's the why that my voice is the reason that people who do like my music like my music right it's a weird it's like a like what do you do with that well you can't do it for other people but I'm saying I sing the way I sing and it's like it's like don't sing that way well I don't that's the whole idea of like you can't do it for other people you can't do it for them you can't do it the way they want it to no there's going to be people who like it the way you want you like it yeah you just have to find out what that thing is and you have to Fig like you have to what whatever your internal Compass is that guides you towards this particular style this particular way of expressing yourself it has to be authentic well singing against a wall of guitars is is a particular skill set it's like singing against three airline Jets at the same time right right right we have we have three guitars in our band playing at the same time so my voice has to cut like a razor through that wall of noise voices are the some voices are so fucking compelling like you listen to them like Amy win housee perfect examp you hear her sing once and you just like whoa like who there's something about it okay so back to my argument about the unconscious thing certain voices convey an unconscious information yeah tonally it reg it registers in the public as a certain Authority or wisdom or sorrow like some some voices just have so much sorrow in them yeah like for Our Generation uh when Kurt would sing and I saw Kurt many times live it sounded like it was like the literal howl of Our Generation it had this great connectivity to what we were experiencing as latchkey kids yes you know yes I don't want to say tantram is but it it had a certain kind of anger anger but it was it was the anger of disaffection it wasn't theer of of a hardcore band like you know Screw capitalism right right right it had a sorrow somehow in it yeah yeah and authenticity like Kurt was the master of authenticity he changed he killed hair bands he did he really did he killed hair bands I remember when I was a kid um never mind came out and I was uh with a couple of friends of mine and uh this guy goes have you seen this and he shows me this fucking cassette with a baby on the cover I go what is it he's like this is nirvana yeah and he played me Nirvana for the first time over his house I was like holy shit like this is crazy yeah it was for for Our Generation it was the it was the the the door getting kicked open yes everything after just got easier but that's the thing these unique artists that come along and transform the medium you know like I said Lenny Bruce prior then Kennison there's a few examples of that in music where someone comes along like Hendrick or Kurt or even Elvis someone comes along and everybody's like what the fuck is going on the Beatles what is happening this is crazy what what strikes me and this is a business point but that's where all the money is and and and yet the music business is not to nurture those talents in fact the music business works against those talents it's almost like they blow up their business model so it becomes inconvenient well what do you think the music business nurtures control they want control they want they they want the the biggest problem I've seen in the music business is they don't understand why musicians can't be as Supple in in the in the business part of the equation as as a guy who makes cookies or something like this is what it costs here's your quality control the public wants more chocolate chips can't you just put more chocolate chips in there and that's and and none of that is what attracts the public to to great artists right it it's it's it's it's like completely counterintuitive so they sit there and they you just end up as as a name on a piece of paper or An Inconvenient problem I mean I've I've said this a few times publicly but it Bears repeating here is I've been in meetings where they're compl they're complaining to me about me like how so like what do they say that basically the the person that I am in the world is inconvenient to their business the things I'm saying the things I'm doing the music I'm making is inconvenient to their business and could I temper those things more in the direction that they want like what particularly were they talking about you name it like give me one example uh it could be anything from uh you know you're too negative to your songs are too weird to your voice is too weird to your guitars are too loud they just want to sell more albums yes so to them it's an intellectual thing oh wow be like Joe if you could just make more jokes about the economy you'd sell two stadiums not just one this is what happened with Dave Chappelle while he left the Chappelle show same exact kind of thing you know a different version of it but yeah so it's this weird thing where you're sitting there and then you're like and what I always try to tell them is I didn't get here with that type of thinking and I do think and I and I don't want to name names but you can I would say this to your great audience you can pretty much tell who got to the dance on their own and somewhere along the way between the second and the fourth album decided that the compromise had a bigger yield W and off goes the organic switch and on goes the oh you want me to be the next door neighbor right or you know uh romantic movie ballads whatever yeah arol Smith went through that for a while but to their credit and I didn't understand at the time it was it was a brilliant move because they'd gone about as far as they could go and the one thing and they're super influential and and and including on alternative music and it end up being a really smart watershed moment for them to do what they did at the time they were doing SNL skits remember Adam Sandler used to come out and he would do the he would do like I think it was Adam Sandler he could do like the seven Aerosmith ballads in a row and it was like I'm crying I'm really crying you know they would just play and he' just sing all those songs like Stephen Tyler um but I I think looking back um was really smart what they did well also maybe they're allowed to do whatever they want to do like artists changed their whole thing like they went from mamin to you know some of those ballads I as far as I know and your your your hute um assistant over there could probably check but I think Errol Smith is the biggest selling American rock band of all time whoa so if you're Errol Smith did they make a wrong turn I my argument would be no because no it's not a wrong turn I mean obviously you're allowed to change what you're interested in too yeah you know like there's a lot of bands that sort of reinvent themselves with almost every album like my friend Sturgill Simpson he sort of reinvents with every album every album's different like he just gets bored with stuff AOL Smith the bestselling American hard rock band of all time having sold more than 150 million records worldwide including over 85 million records in the United States so yeah that's pretty good yeah so that's what I'm saying is only only the bands can really know what what the right direction to go in is because at some point you know what seems so obvious to the audience or some guy in an office is is necessarily what drives the band forward well then there's weird cases like David Lee Roth leaves Van Halen Samy Hagar takes over and it becomes they got bigger bigger in a totally different way but if you talk to the average Van Halen fan they wanted hear the David Lee Roth Van Halen well especially if you grew up with that the thing is like what you started out with is always what you want to see right but I'm saying there's no there's no obvious argument of which which which is superior you know what I'm saying records one is sort of held more in people's hearts because of a particular generational thing which would be our generation but some people love the Sammy Hagar version better you know it's okay you're allowed to like Taylor Swift smell sells a lot of fucking tickets like it doesn't if you're not into it there's nothing it doesn't mean it's wrong I mean everybody has a weird for the way they interface with the world and some things get in there and really lock on you and like wow this is amazing and you could take take the same concert and another person that you like goes to it they say this sucks and you're like this is fucking amazing how can you say this sucks well I think you're about to see that Nickelback and Creed are about to go on a huge run of business really oh yeah oh yeah Nickelback took a lot of shit that's kind my point is is they've survived it and now here comes the the the inevitable moment of like oh yeah it was really good and they wrote a lot of they had some fucking great song that rockar song that's a great song like I was but it was one of those weird things where they had become like a punchline and for whatever reason everybody thought that it was okay to shit on Nickelback and Comics would shit on them and it was like a thing that people would mock the success of Nickelback meanwhile they're selling out Arenas every fucking night of the week so yeah I think history has a way of sorting out the bodies is the way I look at it yeah that's kind of how I feel I mean this is selfish for me to say this but it's kind of how I feel about my musical life I think time will will tell my story much better than I did you will you seem at peace with that I am I doesn't bother you at all I made my peace with it I mean it bothered me when it bothered me because it felt unfair or uh yeah it felt like I was being sort of made to pay for the sins of the people who are no longer here cuz in in particularly in Gen X we've had so many great talents die oh so you felt like you weren't getting the credit you deserve cuz you survived there was part of that um that's this let's call it the the simpler version the more complicated version is is is Generations move with a collective energy and by the mid 2000s the the the collective energy of Generation X had mostly dissipated in in the musical thing there were bands out playing but a lot of the lead singers had died so it's hard to sort of stand and carry a flag for something that people feel very sentimental about if there isn't an army around you carrying the flag so you start to people start to put on you this like a set of cultural and generational expectations that you don't want you become you become the emblem of like the living version of what doesn't work but the other guys or girls aren't there to grow with you and achie you know uh receive the same uh discernment or criticism oh wow like one time a guy tried to go me into an argument of compar myself to one of the top people in of musical people in my generation I don't want to say who but you'll understand the flow on this so and they and and they and they said can you compare you know like who do you think's better so it was like a real cheese setup and I said I said well I think they were more talented and they said but I said I I feel I'm in the conversation and they said why are you in the conversation I said cuz I'm alive you know what I'm saying yeah I'm here well it's also Al like you can't deny that Smashing Pumpkins didn't have some fucking bangers like anybody who denies that well Joe that's a that's a whole other episode because uh the band is probably one of the most misunderstood um I mean they're probably one we're probably one of the most misunderstood bands in the history of rock and roll I mean that's sounds like a wrestling statement but it's it's fairly accurate what do you think that's from I think it has a lot to do with the issues of Gen X and it has a lot to do with uh a relationship that I set into motion with the media when I was a very young person playing kind of a funny game like doing my own my own version of Andy Kaufman or Bob zuda you understand uhhuh because I thought it was all shitty so I was just like I'm just going to play with this like a toy because I think it's kind of funny I didn't realize that the coming culture was going to kind of almost be attracted to people who are willing to imilate themselves on the public stage ah does that make sense yeah most people who are attracted to fame they want to run towards the the shiny part of it right I was attracted to the non shiny part which is okay I'll light myself on fire and let's see what happens or I'll light you on fire and let's see what happens so it kind of worked in the 90s when everybody was rolling and moving along well here comes Napster the music business craters then a bunch of people die and there you are standing you know now at 40 years old you're supposed to carry some flag for a generation that doesn't even know who it is anymore how do you navigate that like did does that did that trouble you at the time was it difficult to work as an artist yeah it's very difficult the simple version is and and I had some of the top top people in the music business sit me down oneon-one in a room and say just give them what they want Jesus your life will be a lot better you'll make a lot more money and you could put your head on on your pillow at night not have to think about all these things and my response every time was said I don't give a fuck and I used to quote pop by I am what I am I'm here I'm here because I'm a freak okay and I ain't changing for anything good for you and part of that goes back to my daddy okay I watched a man literally broken by the business so I'm the last person that's going to fucking bow down for that shit fuck off well the beautiful thing is too you always had an audience so you didn't have to well there is that but but but at the end of the day how can I explain it everybody in the music business will tell you your value is is is exponentially related to your success so your your biggest song is here and your next biggest song is here and there's like a pyramid and as you go down you you lose value your aging becomes part of that loss of value how do you maintain value relevancy um you no longer have the record business that used to exist you no longer have the structure I mean the music business is basically a touring business first now right and everything else is in support of the touring business we're lucky in that we continue to be a very large touring band so you're told over and over again almost in a in a in a propagandistic way that your value is related to what's on a piece of paper and then somehow I woke up in the middle of it and I thought no no that's that's actually not my value and so the minute I started saying no I know what my real value is it's that I'm an independent artist who like a voice in the wildness represents something and I know it's not for everybody trust me I've got been getting that message since I was a little kid including from my own family but I know what I represent represent something that's valuable I can't quite put my finger on it but I see the consistency of the kind of let's called the communication between myself and and somebody who's interested in what I do and once I started doubling and tripling down the value my business started going back up wow the way I would say it in a crass way is I reasserted my brand not the brand I was being handed in in 40 plus brand you know you're an oldie band you're an oldie artist you play these songs well you just kept and reinforced your true voice yeah but I I had a LIF it I brought you to the dance in the first place it seems silly but that's what I had to figure out I had to figure that out on my own because there was nobody telling me that I mean you got to understand and and and and you're a man of the world so you know what I'm saying when you're in a room with somebody who runs the fucking world in my case runs the music business yeah the guy who can get shit done the guy who can get shit canceled the guy who can fucking make stuff happen yeah and that guy tells you here's your value it's awfully hard to go back to Chicago Illinois and convince yourself that he's wrong right right there's nobody and and who do you talk to about it especially if Fame is fleeting it comes and goes album sales come and go and there's a new big thing right now there's the new thing and you're not the new thing anymore yeah and then someone's coming along listen you've got to listen to us we know how you can be back on top I don't read comments but I have social media person who occasionally relays what she sees oh boy well we kind of keep it on the positive but my favorite comment of the last few years was she started poking around with young fans 16 18 year olds who were suddenly seeming to come out of the woodwork and liking the band and me almost like a cuddly bear or something they suddenly were attracted to me in a way that the 16 and 18 year- olds of the pre previous generation weren't so I asked her I said why don't you poke around with these people and ask them what's interesting and my favorite comment and it it became kind of common amongst the feedback that she got was I like him because because other people told me not to like him but what but what that says to me anybody can interpret the way they want the what it said to me is we need people in in the zist of the culture who don't represent the collective yes there's always room for somebody on the corner saying no right and that goes back to Lenny Bruce as crazy as all that was you still need that guy going no no no no no you know what I'm saying and you can call whatever disruptors or whatever I authentic voices I that sounds nicer than disruptor I like disruptor because that's that's what I do well it it does disrupt but it disrupt because it's an authentic voice and because it bucks the idea of creating some manufactured thing for the market I've told many people in the music business I know that you don't want me in this business I'm here and I've made a lot of money and I've made a lot of people a lot of money like what's the problem also you made great songs like the idea but most people are in the business for the music but the idea that somebody wouldn't want you in the business when you've been very successful in the business is just insane it doesn't even make any sense doesn't make sense to me well that's the weird thing that you guys have to deal with you deal with like this whole layer of non-artistic people that have influence over art um having heard you many times do commentary for UFC what I love about you as a commentator is you take me into the into the The Passion of the moment the the feeling of like two Warriors are going to enter this thing and only one can emerge there's a feeling there that's like and I've been to some of the events it's like it has that like it's a it's sort of a life affirming like here we are you know and you you know because you're behind the scenes the training that went in the injuries the guy had overcome or the girl or what whatever or the crazy girlfriend and they got you know the training camp and all of it and there it is the clash it's it's no different for the musician it's like you know I sit in a room for a year and make songs with only three four people hearing them and I have to believe that I'm going to be walk into that my version of that octagon and what I'm going to offer is not going to get me killed what is it like when you release an album what is that feeling like I just I just I want to curl up in a ball and just die because here it comes here it comes and sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised but I've had more negative experiences than positive ones but positive from the fans is it non fans that are the problem it's like the people on the outside peering in 20 years ago I would have given you a different answer now it's nobody's the problem I it's ultimately the game is you versus yourself I don't know if there's any commonality in the fighting world but or the comedic world it's you versus yourself it's not the audience's fault it's not the guy at the radio station or the girl at the at the at the arena it's not nothing to do with them because the one thing you do know is if you find that value that that makes a wheel turn that prints cash they don't care who you are they'll push you right back under the spotlight so once you can figure that game out that's the game the game is you versus you it's not you versus them in fact that's the that's the suckers game so it's you just trying to create the best version of what you have inside your head let's do a simple math and anybody wants to take a have a problem with it I don't care okay uh my band in in in in over 30 years has been in the top 0.1 percentile of touring artists in the world period you would think that if you were in that business and you were at that that Elite level you would think the whole business would rally around you and try to get you to do more and make more not even close to that there is no system by which you get that kind of support you are completely on your own but is that Universal with successful artist I think I I I hear different stories about the top pop artists but I think that's because they're making so much money it's like they're they're like a multinational corporation most bands are their experiences are similar to ours you're kind of on your own you have your team of people and then you walk into the arena with what you got or what you think is going to work um but I hear about the modern pop stars I mean I hear stuff that sounds it sounds like they're running a Fortune 500 company because they're they're they are literally printing cash also the percentage that the actual artists get versus what they should be getting it hurts it's crazy it hurts it's crazy because they do everything they create the music they perform perform the music and yet they're not making the money people are coming to see them perform the music yet they're not making the money there's some bizarre vampires that have attached themselves to the veins it's changing I think in the next 20 years you're going to see a very music a very different music business in what way peer-to-peer uh ability to create Commerce right and then also the fact that you could release things so like Oliver Anthony he put out that rich men north of Richmond and then it's fucking gigantic 100 million views on YouTube it's like it's crazy but like 20 years ago your success and and who you work with would have been Unthinkable right right and you're an independent voice you've built it I mean it's yours right so that's I'm saying that's coming for music this is coming for music right well that's good yes I think ultimately will benefit the fans of the artist and they'll get more of what they want and less of what they don't want here here all right let's WRA it up thank you sir appreciate you very much always fun to talk to you uh tell everybody what your podcast is call where they can get it the Magnificent others you can get it on YouTube or anywhere thanks sir appreciate you thanks so much all right bye everybody

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